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2015-07-04
, 13:39
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#412
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I just read campaign page again and guess what?
I wonder what Dave feels about his post on TJC or all the votes and info about paid apps (top voted for year+ and started by Jolla with no progress or info)
So they do not have to inform us, but this quote from their campaign page. I have mixed feelings.
We want you to tell us how you want your Jolla Tablet to be. It doesn’t matter who you are, you’ll get your voice heard in our community forum together.jolla.com. It’s here that users can suggest new features for Sailfish OS, as well as discuss ideas with the Jolla Sailors (our development team). Our community votes on whether they’d like to see proposed ideas developed further. Anything that has been voted on by the community is prioritised by the Jolla Sailors.
Our community is a vital part of the process and plays a huge role in making something that is people-made. We already have a solid track record after implementing four out of the eight most voted features to our first product, the Jolla smartphone, during 2014.
With our second product, the Jolla Tablet, we want to involve the community even earlier in the development to make the product you want.
So they do not have to inform us, but this quote from their campaign page. I have mixed feelings.
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2015-07-04
, 13:47
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#413
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Originally Posted by jalyst
AFAIK there was some drama between Jolla and Council(or one person from Council) as i heard. But not sure
Hmm, it seems you're forgetting the discussions they had with us here before TJC was implemented, they explained in great detail at the time why they felt it wasn't right to use here, Stefano in particular was constantly posting & explaining why, you seem to be (conveniently?) forgetting all of that. I'm not excusing their total absence here (& their own infra. to some extent) though, there can be no excuse for that IMHO.
And yes i remember that one of the first things that Stefano told with new account. It was that he had root password to this forum or something like that. I just don't get it or take it serious when co-founder's first introduction is kinda of showoff (like in one of the first community meetings his nickname was something like "DaBoss" or something like that. It's just shows the difference in the ways people see things between maemoers, linux geeks, hackers on one side and him on other
But i think the main reason is that they wanted to be in control. They talk about community, but they do everything by themselves and want total control. That's not how FOSS works and "transparency" is not related to that.
But it's too late now and not that relevant.
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2015-07-04
, 14:11
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#414
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Originally Posted by ZogG
You seem to be exercising some very heavy character assassination here, I wonder why, can you please point to these claims you're making, they're very serious & should be backed-up.
And yes i remember that one of the first things that Stefano told with new account. It was that he had root password to this forum or something like that. I just don't get it or take it serious when co-founder's first introduction is kinda of showoff (like in one of the first community meetings his nickname was something like "DaBoss" or something like that. It's just shows the difference in the ways people see things between maemoers, linux geeks, hackers on one side and him on other
Make sure that what you reference proves exactly what you're trying to suggest i.e. not your interpretation, but the actual facts of the matter.
But i think the main reason is that they wanted to be in control. They talk about community, but they do everything by themselves and want total control. That's not how FOSS works and "transparency" is not related to that.
It wasn't unreasonable, many folks were in agreement & understood where they were coming from, there certainly wasn't massive outrage after it was all explained.
It has since fallen far short of the original lofty ambitions, sure, no disagreement there...
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2015-07-04
, 14:51
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Posts: 440 |
Thanked: 2,256 times |
Joined on Jul 2014
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#415
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Originally Posted by ZogG
If you look again you will see I was referring to the number of Jolla Phones, not the Tablets. But given this is a thread about the Tablet that's an easy mistake. However they are going to be stocking up for general availability so I wouldn't be surprised if they did a run of at least 50k for the Tablet, if not considerably more given a 2 year sales timeframe.
I wouldn't argue, I just want to mention that even the number (i think they said they'll publish it) of tablets is not advertised their. And as i see it, it's not even 50k.
from jolla campaign page:
While price is more than 200$ (and there is shipping cost)
that would be about 12700 tablets (there are other perks like covers right?)
and other quote:
So i'm not sure how many but not 100K :P
I agree with you on the communication thing though, the point is perfectly valid, the idea that they lack resources to put up a blog post every few weeks is rather laughable, although I question this notion that because a project is publicly funded that it has to be developed in public view as well, it seems to be the convention but I don't see it as something explicitly required by the crowdfunding model.
Last edited by r0kk3rz; 2015-07-04 at 15:11.
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2015-07-04
, 15:16
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#416
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Originally Posted by jalyst
You seem to be exercising some very heavy character assassination here, I wonder why, can you please point to these claims you're making, they're very serious & should be backed-up.
Make sure that what you reference proves exactly what you're trying to suggest i.e. not your interpretation, but the actual facts of the matter.
I suggest you re-read what they wrote at the time;
It wasn't unreasonable, many folks were in agreement & understood where they were coming from, there certainly wasn't massive outrage after it was all explained.
It has since fallen far short of the original lofty ambitions, sure, no disagreement there...
Originally Posted by stezz
And here is his introduction to IRC meeting of community, where #info is used to introduce yourself, and i don't think it's proper place for sarcasm and jokes.
About bugzilla
.............
About this community
I know rather well (or I think I knew) maemo.org as I had root access to these (or those to be more precise) servers once upon a time. xfade is working with us and he knows even more than me this place.
.....
--
Stezz
CTO and co-founder @ Jolla
tbr: any more introductions? preface with #info
stezz_da_board: #info Stezz: Da board
http://merproject.org/logs/%23mer-me...04-15T15:08:46
Maybe it's me overreacting, but I can find as well tweets from my first conversation with him on twitter (when i had no idea who he was btw and just mentioned something about jolla), where he compared Jolla and Sailfish to Beethoven creating sonatas. But it's irrelevant, there are different people and I hope he is not only one making decisions.
Last edited by ZogG; 2015-07-04 at 15:28. Reason: added bolt to quote
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2015-07-04
, 15:18
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#417
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Originally Posted by r0kk3rz
Indeed, it's not a law. But it tells you somethin about company and please read the qoute in my post above from their campaign page — it tells different point of view
If you look again you will see I was referring to the number of Jolla Phones, not the Tablets. But given this is a thread about the Tablet that's an easy mistake. However they are going to be stocking up for general availability so I wouldn't be surprised if they did a run of at least 50k for the Tablet, if not considerably more given a 2 year sales timeframe.
I agree with you on the communication thing though, the point is perfectly valid, the idea that they lack resources to put up a blog post every few weeks is rather laughable, although I question this notion that because a project is publicly funded that it has to be developed in public view as well, it seems to be the convention but I don't see it as something explicitly required by the crowdfunding model.
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2015-07-04
, 15:25
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Moderator |
Posts: 5,320 |
Thanked: 4,464 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#418
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TBH, I genuinely think it's a misinterpretation, but I'll leave it for him to explain further, I can't speak for him...
I'm done here, I prefer to spend my energies on something constructive/useful...
I just don't go out of my way to try to prove why companies or individuals are in some way evil or negligent, just not something that interests me, no matter the co. or org.
I think most people are good not bad, & they usually have the best of intentions, but everyone's world view is different.
Can they always do better? Absolutely! Can Jolla do a metric **** tonne better? Absolutely...
I refer you back to several posts (inc. a few of mine) that've already posited that we structure all of our issues/concerns in 1 central location, & that we get Jolla to address them.
They've been receptive to such an approach several times in the past, I don't see why they wouldn't again...
It's sux we've gotten to the point where we must present all of our concerns right under their nose again, but if they at least address most of them*, then that's all that matters.
I'm not organising it though, I'll leave that for someone else....
*& give commitments to address most of the remaining contentious ones within a rough time-frame
I'm done here, I prefer to spend my energies on something constructive/useful...
I just don't go out of my way to try to prove why companies or individuals are in some way evil or negligent, just not something that interests me, no matter the co. or org.
I think most people are good not bad, & they usually have the best of intentions, but everyone's world view is different.
Can they always do better? Absolutely! Can Jolla do a metric **** tonne better? Absolutely...
I refer you back to several posts (inc. a few of mine) that've already posited that we structure all of our issues/concerns in 1 central location, & that we get Jolla to address them.
They've been receptive to such an approach several times in the past, I don't see why they wouldn't again...
It's sux we've gotten to the point where we must present all of our concerns right under their nose again, but if they at least address most of them*, then that's all that matters.
I'm not organising it though, I'll leave that for someone else....
*& give commitments to address most of the remaining contentious ones within a rough time-frame
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2015-07-04
, 16:08
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Posts: 6,447 |
Thanked: 20,981 times |
Joined on Sep 2012
@ UK
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#419
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Wow, what a thread. I go away for a day and it grows 6 pages. Yet you get the same old arguments and speculations, while all that it needed to put a stop to it all would be ONE post from Jolla. Oh well...
One post stands out above all:
One post stands out above all:
Originally Posted by ZogG
It might be useful to also point out another small difference. Dirk was posting updates about the TOHKBD progress all the time. When there was a delay - and yes, there were a few - he posted about it immediately, with a proper explanation. And guess what? No endless arguments and speculations. What a surprise.
I was just told that TOHKBDv2 team made about 1,5k keyboards and it's about 3 ppl in team. While Jolla at least have 50 people(i think it's about 100, but who knows) and external resources, fundings and connections as a company... So do the math...
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2015-07-04
, 16:53
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Posts: 67 |
Thanked: 184 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
@ Helsinki
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#420
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Still waiting like the rest for the famous / infamous screen posting from Jola. Actually preordered phone and tablet now but like so many geting more frustrated about the lack of soonish communication.
On a side note one of the biggest finish tech retailer got their preorder of the tablet up: https://m.verkkokauppa.com/fi/produc...v/Jolla-Tablet
Interesting....but of course no timetable.
On a side note one of the biggest finish tech retailer got their preorder of the tablet up: https://m.verkkokauppa.com/fi/produc...v/Jolla-Tablet
Interesting....but of course no timetable.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 06:28.
from jolla campaign page:
that would be about 12700 tablets (there are other perks like covers right?)
and other quote:
And again they are company vs 3 people, and OS was there, it's not like they did it from scratch. It's HW that supports Android and there are people who ported Sailfish to other platforms from community without even internal code and resources from 3rd party HW.
So yes, it's not the same, but again if you don't like TOHKBD example, check Pebble Time(own HW and not copycat tablet(Jolla tablet is not that original in HW wise) and OWN OS that they had to totally redesign and even keep backward compatibility. Btw they had campaign after Jolla or about same time and watches are already out there) or any other project that gathered way more than Jolla and not bigger than Jolla, but they had no problems to communicate with community and even change things according to feedback.
IRC nick on freenode — ZogG
imgrup