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Kangal is offline Kangal
2011-10-28 , 23:40
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#4271
I can buy the Samsung Galaxy Note TODAY:
http://www.mobicity.com.au/samsung-galaxy-note.html

Comes with 1yr local warranty, unlocked, and arrives (stock in 5 days, ships in 3) 8 business days.

I just can't make myself plonk that much cash for a phone. I already set an amount of $649 (for unlocked, 1yr warranty, and shipping) and I wont be paying more/getting less.

The hands-down cheapest place I could find is here for $699.99 and has no warranty, darn so-close!
http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wire...roductid=28619

edit: What's this deal with "optional NFC" ?
Does it have it or not?
 

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Kangal is offline Kangal
2011-10-28 , 23:41
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#4272
By the way guys, here's the analysis of Android's fragmentation:
http://theunderstatement.com/post/11...ory-of-support
It's very real, its a sad story, and it is Google's fault.
Google needs to set restrictions saying that a device sold with Google's Market App needs to be updated to a current level of the OS for at least 18months. And should place restrictions on legacy devices (no more than 2 major revisions back) for at least 3 years.

Google can easily do this by using its servers to block devices without the "requirements" meaning if the OEMs/Carriers dont comply it is their fault and the consumer has every right to use legal action against them, especially when it comes to false advertising.

So "Google phones" will always have access to Google Services (Market, Gmail, Maps, Navigation, YouTube etc etc) and will have it with the latest OS and latest applications for a respectable period. Which is an advantage "Android phones" (aka crapdroids, ones that didnt have Market access) won't have.

Which would mean OEMs would have to limit their customization of the build to make sure they can implement the newest builds without too many complications, as well as the carriers who have to limit their restrictions and bloatware.
ie/ Boosting the overall quality of Android from its current state, enhancing user satisfaction

For instance:
1 (Nov 11)= The ICS 4.0 version is just released
2 (Nov 11)= You buy a phone (outright/on-contract) with Gingerbread
3 (Nov 11-May 13)= You can access the Market with Gingerbread
4 (May 12)= The Jelly Bean 5.0 version is released 6months later
5 (Nov 12)= The Kuhla Cake 6.0 version is released 12months later
6 (May 13)= Last date for the OEM+Carrier needs to upgrade you to Android 5.0 (Jelly Bean) on the latest build
7 (May 13)= The Lollipop version 7.0 is released 18months later
8 (Nov 13)= End of carrier contract, customer can upgrade to newer hardware & software

For instance:
1 (Nov 11)= You buy a phone (contract/outright/secondhand) that was released 12 months ago (Nov 10)
2 (Nov 11)= Your "Google Supported Phone" should be officially running Froyo or higher
3 (May 12)= Your phone gets an update to the latest Android build (ICS 4.0)
4 (May 12)= The Jelly Bean 5.0 version is released
5 (Nov 12)= The Kuhla Cake 6.0 version is released
6 (May 13)= The Lollipop version 7.0 is released
7 (Nov 13)= Latest date for OEM to give you official update for Jelly Bean 5.0
8 (Nov 13)= The Marshmallow 8.0 version is released
9 (Dec 13)= Customer not to expect anymore support - Customer satisfied
Last edited by Kangal; 2011-10-28 at 23:49.
 
danramos's Avatar
danramos is offline danramos
2011-10-29 , 00:02
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#4273
Originally Posted by Kangal View Post
For instance:
1 (Nov 11)= The ICS 4.0 version is just released
2 (Nov 11)= You buy a phone (outright/on-contract) with Gingerbread
3 (Nov 11-May 13)= You can access the Market with Gingerbread
4 (May 12)= The Jelly Bean 5.0 version is released 6months later
5 (Nov 12)= The Kuhla Cake 6.0 version is released 12months later
6 (May 13)= Last date for the OEM+Carrier needs to upgrade you to Android 5.0 (Jelly Bean) on the latest build
7 (May 13)= The Lollipop version 7.0 is released 18months later
8 (Nov 13)= End of carrier contract, customer can upgrade to newer hardware & software

For instance:
1 (Nov 11)= You buy a phone (contract/outright/secondhand) that was released 12 months ago (Nov 10)
2 (Nov 11)= Your "Google Supported Phone" should be officially running Froyo or higher
3 (May 12)= Your phone gets an update to the latest Android build (ICS 4.0)
4 (May 12)= The Jelly Bean 5.0 version is released
5 (Nov 12)= The Kuhla Cake 6.0 version is released
6 (May 13)= The Lollipop version 7.0 is released
7 (Nov 13)= Latest date for OEM to give you official update for Jelly Bean 5.0
8 (Nov 13)= The Marshmallow 8.0 version is released
9 (Dec 13)= Customer not to expect anymore support - Customer satisfied
Can you elaborate? I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding that at all.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
Kangal's Avatar
Kangal is offline Kangal
2011-10-29 , 01:33
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#4274
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Can you elaborate? I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding that at all.
So you buy an iPhone.
Within one year the hardware is "obsolete". However you can still run the latest software and use the latest apps. So your 24month contract does really last well with the phone you purchased.

With Android its completely the opposite.
Phones are released weeks, if not months, after the source code for the latest android build yet you still get it with one major revision behind. The oem promises update to the latest one "soon", which normally shouldn't exceed 2 months. However in most cases there is nearly six month period until the update trickkles out, even longer before you get it. By this time, another major revision is undergone giving new features, spec bumps etc.
In most cases, after purchasing an Android device you are left behind and usually at the mercy of the developer community (CM/MIUI/Custom), and currently they only account for a small portion of the market.

If Google put in a restriction to the Google Market (and other proprietary software), OEMs would have to comply and so would the carriers. I read somewhere that over 70% of apps were written with the Android 2.1 SDK so that developers can get as much compatibility as possible. This means apps have poor performance on the latest hardware, which is one area where Apple excels.

Now a typical contract is 2 years. If Google said every Google phone has to be updated to the latest build within 1.5 years, it would really create an incentive for developers to utilize the improved sdks. And if Google said that devices must be supported for 3 years, it would again increase the minimum sdk developers use to target as much devices as possible.

Google upgrades the Android build to a major revision every 6 months (2.1-> 2.2-> 2.3). In between, there is bug fixes, security patches, added functions such as 2.3-> 2.3.3-> 2.3.4-> 2.3.5-> 2.3.7 etc etc
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-10-29 , 09:27
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#4275
Originally Posted by Kangal View Post
So you buy an iPhone.
Within one year the hardware is "obsolete". However you can still run the latest software and use the latest apps. So your 24month contract does really last well with the phone you purchased.

With Android its completely the opposite.
Phones are released weeks, if not months, after the source code for the latest android build yet you still get it with one major revision behind. The oem promises update to the latest one "soon", which normally shouldn't exceed 2 months. However in most cases there is nearly six month period until the update trickkles out, even longer before you get it. By this time, another major revision is undergone giving new features, spec bumps etc.
In most cases, after purchasing an Android device you are left behind and usually at the mercy of the developer community (CM/MIUI/Custom), and currently they only account for a small portion of the market.

If Google put in a restriction to the Google Market (and other proprietary software), OEMs would have to comply and so would the carriers. I read somewhere that over 70% of apps were written with the Android 2.1 SDK so that developers can get as much compatibility as possible. This means apps have poor performance on the latest hardware, which is one area where Apple excels.

Now a typical contract is 2 years. If Google said every Google phone has to be updated to the latest build within 1.5 years, it would really create an incentive for developers to utilize the improved sdks. And if Google said that devices must be supported for 3 years, it would again increase the minimum sdk developers use to target as much devices as possible.

Google upgrades the Android build to a major revision every 6 months (2.1-> 2.2-> 2.3). In between, there is bug fixes, security patches, added functions such as 2.3-> 2.3.3-> 2.3.4-> 2.3.5-> 2.3.7 etc etc
Got all that--but I didn't at all understand how to read the portion I quoted in my reply to you.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
Kangal's Avatar
Kangal is offline Kangal
2011-10-29 , 15:57
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#4276
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Got all that--but I didn't at all understand how to read the portion I quoted in my reply to you.
Chronologically.
Nov 11 is not 11th November, it is November 2011.
May 12 is ... ... you get the picture.

So working your way down the list starting from #1, is the list of events that would happen. Basically you buy a droid-phone on 24month contract and in that period you need to get at least (min) two updates. The first is to have the latest build when you buy the phone and the second must be anytime in that 18months to keep it on the latest build. After that I think its fair if they drop support as that last 6 months will give carriers "breathing space" and give consumers an incentive to upgrade.

Basically following a systemetic structure like that, enforcable by Big Goog, would make developers use new toolkits for apps so that they function better. Half the apps I have are built on the 2.1SDK and my phone runs 2.3.7 which has a lot of speed improvements. No wonder the iPhone is buttery smooth compared to the average android phone.
 
Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2011-10-29 , 16:35
Posts: 4,556 | Thanked: 1,624 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#4277
Originally Posted by Kangal View Post
By the way guys, here's the analysis of Android's fragmentation:
http://theunderstatement.com/post/11...ory-of-support
It's very real, its a sad story, and it is Google's fault.
Google needs to set restrictions saying that a device sold with Google's Market App needs to be updated to a current level of the OS for at least 18months. And should place restrictions on legacy devices (no more than 2 major revisions back) for at least 3 years.

Google can easily do this by using its servers to block devices without the "requirements" meaning if the OEMs/Carriers dont comply it is their fault and the consumer has every right to use legal action against them, especially when it comes to false advertising.
I think Google has started doing that already, if not they are starting with ICS (there was an agreement made a while back though I think it only applies for new phones). Don't know when it's exactly suppose to start though (e.g. 2012?)

But if I recall correctly, in order to get access to "Google Apps" on Android they need to comply with timely updates, etc..etc.. Manufacturers of course are free to use Android regardless but they can't have "Google Apps" on them. So no Google Maps Navigation, GTalk, etc.. So it'd be like the Kindle Fire. It runs Android but not really Google's apps.
__________________
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 

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railroadmaster is offline railroadmaster
2011-10-31 , 03:59
Posts: 1,082 | Thanked: 1,235 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#4278
Hey guys I finally ordered an HTC Flyer. I waited a year to buy one, now I wait two weeks for it to arrive in the mail. I also ordered the HTC Scribe pen and a navitech case with pen holder. So I will tell you guys what I think of when I receive it in the mail. I guess there is a reason why people say patience is a virtue. Soon my waiting will be over, then I will be waiting yet again for another ahh the sad life of a geek.
 
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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2011-11-02 , 15:34
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#4279
Originally Posted by Kangal View Post
I read somewhere that over 70% of apps were written with the Android 2.1 SDK so that developers can get as much compatibility as possible. This means apps have poor performance on the latest hardware, which is one area where Apple excels.
C'mon, man. This is flat out false information.

I appreciate your efforts, but I don't think you understand what 'fragmentation' means.

Each API level brings new functionality, and each new release brings added stability/performance improvements FOR THE ENTIRE PLATFORM. Depending on the app, the developer may choose to target 2.1 because they don't need the features associated with the API level in 2.3 (API level 10). In fact, developers can target 1.6 if they want (API Level 4) if they don't need the classes in higher levels. There are a bunch of apps that do this.

There are also backports. For example, the HC/ICS UI that everyone is so horny about, has been backported as far as Android 2.3 (AFAIK). This means that pretty much everyone has access to ICS apps so long as they don't include API objects exclusive to API Level 14.

It is thus up to the developer to determine what his/her app needs and then release accordingly knowing the market. Were I developing an app tomorrow that didn't need HID Controllers or NFC, I might just develope for the v2.0 API level. But that wouldn't mean my app would run slowly by any stretch.

Android has a HIGH degree of different architectures to support with the OS. This is very different than the single-SKU Apple, or the we-choose-the-hardware-for-you Microsoft strategy. And Android handles the problem of compatibility masterfully given the market. Sure, not every app will be available for you to use in the market if you buy a device, but before you echo the herd with the 'fragmentation' claim based on OS versions numbers, I would first a) understand what you're talking about, and b) get real statistics that demonstrate compatibility across all platforms to find out where devices actually stand.

Yes, ICS was unveiled a week or so ago. But that doesn't mean for an instant that devices released a year ago suddenly stop working with apps, nor does it mean that they will lose relevance in 6 months.
 

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Kangal's Avatar
Kangal is offline Kangal
2011-11-03 , 03:45
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#4280
^ Yes, CC's in the building!


I think Android does do it "quite good" but in reviews, there are hoards of negative reviews about compatibility with their devices. I've experienced this a few times as well. It's no wonder why there are so many updates for Android Apps, most are to fix bugs and compatibility... i mean can so many reviews be false?

I just think if Google did something as radical as introduce a software restriction to Android Market, I think overall it would aid the Android experience and take away some power from the carriers.
 

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