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| The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to Jaffa For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-04-03
, 17:05
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Posts: 1,397 |
Thanked: 2,126 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
@ Dublin, Ireland
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#42
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
You are right about the question that Harmattan discussions are happening here at TMO and I agree that better collaboration between Harmattan and Fremantle users will be welcomed.
It seems that what's missing (I assume it's missing, or those of us "out of touch" would have been pointed to it already ;-)) is an equivalent of the old task backlog. These used to be maintained in the wiki - but that was a bit heavyweight. I seem to remember posting a proposal for using Bugzilla for task tracking (with some embedded reports in the wiki to act as a focal point), but that'd require some digging over my last 7 years of Maemo community contributions! ;-)
This backlog should have a list of tasks which the community needs doing, prioritised in the council meetings and in collaboration with the people involved (CSSU team, Nemein, ...), and who is going to do it - if anyone. A task should also list the stakeholders, or the council member who will help facilitate. It should also link to a wiki page for more background/coordination on the task.
The Maemo community got a big influx of users with the N900, but don't forget the N8x0 users or even 770 users. This fixation on "Fremantle is everything" is as exclusionary as "ohnoes, Harmattan is taking over".
Personally, I find the forum too hard to follow in my limited spare time (which was one of the drivers to establish the aforementioned MWKN Weekly News - unfortunately, not many of the other people who do read TMO religiously are posting links). However, perhaps one of the actions on the above backlog - looking for a champion - would be to start a nice, transparent, open discussion about whether another forum reorganisation would help. Harmattan discussions are happening here, let's accept them and make sure things are well structured. They may be already :-)
But we, the Fremantle users are facing lots of problems related to administration of repositories, OBS, package promotion, etc, and the Council (SD69) and CSSU members are pushing to fix these issues without receiving even an answer in some occasions.
All those questions are not affecting Harmattan users who are, precisely, the ones that have moved away from Maemo.org. And now the next Council needs more administrative privileges in the Maemo infrastructure to be able to fix any of them.
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2012-04-03
, 17:18
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Posts: 3,074 |
Thanked: 12,960 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ Sofia,Bulgaria
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#43
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
I don't see how this answers my question to qgil.
It seems that what's missing (I assume it's missing, or those of us "out of touch" would have been pointed to it already ;-)) is an equivalent of the old task backlog. These used to be maintained in the wiki - but that was a bit heavyweight. I seem to remember posting a proposal for using Bugzilla for task tracking (with some embedded reports in the wiki to act as a focal point), but that'd require some digging over my last 7 years of Maemo community contributions! ;-)
This backlog should have a list of tasks which the community needs doing, prioritised in the council meetings and in collaboration with the people involved (CSSU team, Nemein, ...), and who is going to do it - if anyone. A task should also list the stakeholders, or the council member who will help facilitate. It should also link to a wiki page for more background/coordination on the task.
The Maemo community got a big influx of users with the N900, but don't forget the N8x0 users or even 770 users. This fixation on "Fremantle is everything" is as exclusionary as "ohnoes, Harmattan is taking over".
Personally, I find the forum too hard to follow in my limited spare time (which was one of the drivers to establish the aforementioned MWKN Weekly News - unfortunately, not many of the other people who do read TMO religiously are posting links). However, perhaps one of the actions on the above backlog - looking for a champion - would be to start a nice, transparent, open discussion about whether another forum reorganisation would help. Harmattan discussions are happening here, let's accept them and make sure things are well structured. They may be already :-)
| The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to freemangordon For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-04-03
, 17:51
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#44
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Originally Posted by freemangordon
I'm thinking Quim is the best person to answer questions directed at him, anyway.
I don't see how this answers my question to qgil.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2012-04-03
, 18:47
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#45
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About the focus of my work at maemo.org:
Discussion and collaboration between open source users and developers. The release, feedback, release process is something that app stores don't really give you. Here a developer knows that chances to get testers and feedback are higher (especially when something is broken).
The community support and gadget chit chat comes as a consequence of the above and adds a unique spice to this community.
Better understanding and connection with neighbor and upstream projects would help too. For instance, there are Qt developer releasing SDK and libraries for Android, maybe they could find here users willing to try and report? Or PhoneGap apps runing in Harmattan. Or...
As much as I believe in users and developers, I don't believe in 'Fremantle' (or any other attribute) users and developers. One day you change of software, hardware or.both - and you are still the same. A commu.ity invests in people, a vision and a goal. The tighter you link this to a specific product, version, etc, the higher your chances are of becoming obsolete in this fast evolving context. I'd say push all your Maemo 5 and N900 love but don't stop anybody sharing a vision, a goal, a sympathy.
I have helped in the past clarifying why Nokia does the things it does, and pointing out areas where Nokia won't put more time or resources. As much as people can get upset hearing news like these I will continue bringing them as the best and most useful thing I can do for you. This js not a perfect world, resources are limited, proprietary software is proprietary for a reason, etc.
I guess that sums it.up. As usual, I'm open to suggestions and critique for improvement.
Discussion and collaboration between open source users and developers. The release, feedback, release process is something that app stores don't really give you. Here a developer knows that chances to get testers and feedback are higher (especially when something is broken).
The community support and gadget chit chat comes as a consequence of the above and adds a unique spice to this community.
Better understanding and connection with neighbor and upstream projects would help too. For instance, there are Qt developer releasing SDK and libraries for Android, maybe they could find here users willing to try and report? Or PhoneGap apps runing in Harmattan. Or...
As much as I believe in users and developers, I don't believe in 'Fremantle' (or any other attribute) users and developers. One day you change of software, hardware or.both - and you are still the same. A commu.ity invests in people, a vision and a goal. The tighter you link this to a specific product, version, etc, the higher your chances are of becoming obsolete in this fast evolving context. I'd say push all your Maemo 5 and N900 love but don't stop anybody sharing a vision, a goal, a sympathy.
I have helped in the past clarifying why Nokia does the things it does, and pointing out areas where Nokia won't put more time or resources. As much as people can get upset hearing news like these I will continue bringing them as the best and most useful thing I can do for you. This js not a perfect world, resources are limited, proprietary software is proprietary for a reason, etc.
I guess that sums it.up. As usual, I'm open to suggestions and critique for improvement.
| The Following 19 Users Say Thank You to qgil For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-04-03
, 20:35
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#47
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True, another thing I did was to seed devices. I'm happy discussing about that as well. How should we go about this is something to be discussed in a separate thread. The idea could be: show us your apps and your plan to have them published. I don't think we can find N950s anymore but N9 and even Nokia 808 PureView (for those willing to expand on Symbian) should be doable.
| The Following User Says Thank You to qgil For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-04-03
, 20:50
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Posts: 584 |
Thanked: 700 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#48
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Don't get me wrong but this will lowere the low ammount of developers for N900 which sadly after 3 yeras has no successor...
__________________
per ardua ad astra
per ardua ad astra
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2012-04-03
, 21:52
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Posts: 1,680 |
Thanked: 3,685 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
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#49
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How about some source code?
__________________
N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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2012-04-03
, 22:50
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#50
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Just replying to the above:
- The same argument was given by some N810 users when we were seeding N900s. It's a cyclic discussion. In the meantime we get many requests from developers to get their hands in fresh devices - and it is our work to make sure that developers with interesting apps get them polished and published. We got a new round of devices for developer seeding and I consider this as good news.
- Nokia won't publish more Fremantle source code. I don't think it will publish more Harmattan source code either. Now you have teams working in open development directly in upstream projects and teams working in closed development inside Nokia teams - minimizing the effect of "throwing code over the wall" as much as possible.
This thread is about the Council election, if you want to discuss other community topics please use own threads in the Community forum.
- The same argument was given by some N810 users when we were seeding N900s. It's a cyclic discussion. In the meantime we get many requests from developers to get their hands in fresh devices - and it is our work to make sure that developers with interesting apps get them polished and published. We got a new round of devices for developer seeding and I consider this as good news.
- Nokia won't publish more Fremantle source code. I don't think it will publish more Harmattan source code either. Now you have teams working in open development directly in upstream projects and teams working in closed development inside Nokia teams - minimizing the effect of "throwing code over the wall" as much as possible.
This thread is about the Council election, if you want to discuss other community topics please use own threads in the Community forum.
| The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to qgil For This Useful Post: | ||
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| Tags |
| council, election, incommunicado, winding down |
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This backlog should have a list of tasks which the community needs doing, prioritised in the council meetings and in collaboration with the people involved (CSSU team, Nemein, ...), and who is going to do it - if anyone. A task should also list the stakeholders, or the council member who will help facilitate. It should also link to a wiki page for more background/coordination on the task.
Personally, I find the forum too hard to follow in my limited spare time (which was one of the drivers to establish the aforementioned MWKN Weekly News - unfortunately, not many of the other people who do read TMO religiously are posting links). However, perhaps one of the actions on the above backlog - looking for a champion - would be to start a nice, transparent, open discussion about whether another forum reorganisation would help. Harmattan discussions are happening here, let's accept them and make sure things are well structured. They may be already :-)
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org