If you have searched for answers and found none .....sure...ask away...
If you haven't searched for answers ...that is another matter.

rootsh for example is an absolute basic ...almost a given here...
passwords aren't needed for it.
I imagine it isn't just in the wiki ...but also in a few walk throughs and posts as well.

As far as this place having pertinent walk throughs and comprehensive and easy to find instructions which should be essential and basic ...
I agree.

As far as your statement
"I think that this forum would have more value if there would be a procedure of keeping some wikipages updated that way that always when there comes a new user asking the same guestions you could just say "first read all these pages for new users". Now I have got answers from some or just "read through the forum" sometimes. I just don't think it is a wise thing to do and I think this should change."

I also agree.
And the VERY moment you find a few thousand ...
hell ... a few hundred ...
a hundred ....
even fifty competent and knowledgeable ...
ex n900 devels, maintainers, and coders to come back ...
continue with keeping up the wikis,
maintaining and improving the general upkeep ...
and make things convenient so it is a one - stop "click" ..
you let me know.

I was here to see the last of that age pass.
We just don't have enough knowledgeable n900 users for the critical mass necessary anymore for your wishes.

A good part of my learning curve was spent by looking, hunting, searching and reading. In some cases it took a long time to put some answers together.
In the rare case ...when I had trouble ...I asked.

I completely agree with you...
We need for some critical issues pertinent and (relatively) recent walk throughs ...and wikis
And someone should be doing them...

Considering there is a staff shortage here...
as in..
We have NO staff...
no one is paid for their time in doing work here ...
And we are at a critical point in the history of the lack of numbers of competent users, devels, coders and maintainers here...
I am sure it will be the number one top priority to get that done right away


But right now what I have been noticing is...
If the device line and the os could be compared to a high rise...

Instead of walking around checking out each room from the ground floor up...
and taking the stairs to the next floor..
and thereby understanding the floors that make up the structure for the support for the next floor above it...

You have been taking the elevator up as high as you can ..
then once you get out at an upper floor ..
you start having fundamental issues that impede you.

You seem to be able to follow moderate to almost complex instructions...
to achieve intermediate results for what you desire...
as you have shown..
yet the basics are unknown to you ...as you seem to display repeatedly...
So yet again...
I suggest you learn the basics...first.
read
study
research.
Then you will be knowledgeable from the ground up.
And then you can write walk throughs and additions to the wikis...

I searched the wiki, I checked the cssu, I find similar questions asked before https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.ph...curity+updates.

A valid answer to my questions could be: cssu is all there is needed for security to be as updated as is for you possible.

If that is a valid answer. It is if there is nothing more to do, no more patches around, no more fixes, no more updates or possible solutions. But if there are, then it is wise to make such a page.

So my suggestion is: If there is someone who knows about the state of N900 security could it be possible that you make a wiki page of it?

The header could be "Updated stage of N900 security"

The topics (which I know but there are probably more) would have:

CSSU security

CSSU testing security

CSSU devel security

Certificate updates for browser and device

Openssl

Setting proxy (in wiki there is a header "Needs updating" and a link to talk page without content)

There are probably many more things too.

And the content could be on different topics: not secure state with a definition why. Then if someone knows a fix it could be fixed and changed the state of the topic with instructions how to fix/update.

Or as I said in my post is the right answer to my questions "Don't bother, just wait for leste". That may well be the best answer. When leste comes it will (I think it should) have it's own pages with fresh start and updated wiki. For many things it is probably possible to just copy instructions from the maemo wiki and adjust the wiki where needed.

Maybe I just stay with my device to wait leste. I think that is the right answer for in some conversations it is said that N900 with closed source stuff it is just not possible to get what you want. So cssu and easy debbie with netsurf 3.8 is the best bet for secure browsing and there is not much more to think about at this moment.

I really hope Leste would bring more devs back or new ones also.

I think you are almost starting to get what I was trying to say...

Let me be more concise.

#1- Since Nokia stopped doing it, and handed over control of the NIT line to us,

#2- Since larger entities ...like google or mozilla or ...WHOMEVER ...
Have ALSO stopped working on browsers and patches and software for the NIT line ...

#3- We don't have teams (which is what we need) working all the time on and dealing with these issues.

#4- Device security is critical.
If it could be dealt with
You wouldn't be asking.
It would already be done.


Now
as far as your repeated mantra "Don't bother, just wait for leste". "
And your belief
"That may well be the best answer. When leste comes it will (I think it should) have it's own pages with fresh start and updated wiki. For many things it is probably possible to just copy instructions from the maemo wiki and adjust the wiki where needed."

You are still working with this theory of an army of magic elves ..

When Leste comes we STILL will be in the very same boat.
We don't have the teams to deal with the issues, write wikis and take the time playing ""Chat / Call Centre Help Line"

There are multiple devices for Leste ...
the n900 is just one.
and it is an older device at that.
There will be more attention and more folks on devices with better specs...more ram...etc. focused on Leste than the n900.

The situation with wikis and walk throughs, maintenance, etc..
DOESN'T change with a new OS for us.

With time it may get better with some folks coming back to their n900...
But pennies to pounds ...the majority will be coming back to use their devices ...NOT fix things, maintain things, update things...
At least not for the n900.
We may get one or two old bodies back...who can help with the n900...
The rest will be folks pulling their n900s out of the desk drawer after years from moving on to more current devices...

The majority of folks returning / coming here who can actually help with Leste ..
will be focusing their efforts on more current devices.

Leste is not a magic bullet.
There is no army of magic n900 Leste elves coming to fix things and make it all better.

The best person to trust to get the wikis done , update and maintain this place , for whatever device, for whatever os ...
IS YOURSELF.

There is nowhere on the internet where this mantra is more apt.
YOU ARE THE CHANGE YOU WISH TO SEE.

So if that is your focus...
Do it.

But to get there.
get studying.
get reading.
get researching.

Get learning
Like everyone else who has come here in the past.
Everyone here including myself has spent years and years learning here.
Personally...then I spent just as long researching the fields I have to provide the walk throughs and troubleshooting guides for what I have done.

At this point in my life
and at this point in maemo work...
My interest is not in doing any more walk throughs, "How To's" or lengthy post explanations for new people,
Been there
Done that.
For now and the foreseeable future...my interest is in actually enjoying my devices ...
and specifically work with real time effects processing on the NIT line...
yet again ...as in enjoying the devices.


As far as walkthroughs go ...
You are on to something ...
And I have ...and many others have tried to explain this before ...
many many many times...

In fact one could consider this whole core issue unto itself ...
A walk through.

As such I will be putting it in my signature.
calling it
"IMPORTANT FOR NEW FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND"

which will make it easier to refer to ...
Since this is THE LAST TIME I SPEND TRYING TO EXPLAIN YET AGAIN THE OVERALL SITUATION HERE AT TMO ...
TO A NEW PERSON.

The link IMPORTANT FOR NEW MEMBERS TO UNDERSTAND does not work. May be confusing. And at last you answered with more content with your 1#-4# points. Now later readers get more out of this thread. So concerning microb browser it is outdated and will stay as such, with device it seems cssu is the latest update and there is nothing more to do, and the best thing is to WAIT FOR LESTE. I don't believe in magic elves. I believe what is said in Lestes page, why they are doing it and what is their goal. They are trying to make an updated debian to work on N900. There should be nothing wrong in making the conclusion that in the present situation it is the best thing to do to WAIT FOR LESTE instead of spending huge amounts of time searching for answers about security patches and workarounds which can not be found.

This is the information the new users who read this post while trying to find out about N900 security should find.

It is then another matter to disguss how to keep Leste updated and secure and there are the magic elves needed. When leste comes it is not the finishing line but a starting line for a new age with N900 without closed source software and with updated kernel.

Now when this has become clear I can read through the forum without useless effort to try to find answers which aren't there and I can focuse on other matters and so can other new users who find this thread.

Oh but the link DOES work.
It isn't confusing at all.
It clears things up for folks who come to TMO expecting a free helpline and a Latte handed to them while they wait.

Unfortunately
new folks come here with this idea that "things shouldn't be the way they are here " and expect someone else to deal with it for them.

ie: * "I don't see a real value for him to need to use lots and lots of time reading different threads in this forum trying to find answers to many questions if there are people who know the answers and could easily give them."
and of course yet again " think that this forum would have more value if there would be a procedure of keeping some wikipages updated that way that always when there comes a new user asking the same guestions you could just say "first read all these pages for new users". Now I have got answers from some or just "read through the forum" sometimes. I just don't think it is a wise thing to do and I think this should change."

Wake up, Buttercup.

I know it is going to be hard to come to grips with...
But ..

yours and many other new folks "I think .."
and "I want..."
and "I need ..."
and "right away..."
I am here to let you and other new folks coming ...
know...
on behalf of the community and myself included ..
That...
Contrary to your belief ...
you are not the centre of the universe.
Your need and other new members needs do not trump all else,
the facts of what the community is dealing with,
cause and effect or reality itself.

My last post works as a reminder ..
because everything I said in it...
Has been / Is / Will be fact since :
A- Nokia support and development teams left.
B- Outside support and development teams have stopped doing work for the NIT line
C- We lost enough inside devels / maintainers / coders for the NIT line

D- Leste's or ANY new os arrival isn't going to improve the wiki magically
E- Leste's or ANY new os arrival isn't going to maintain anything for the n900 magically.
F- Leste's or ANY new os arrival isn't going to answer your questions magically.

D, E, and F takes maintainers, teams, devs, coders, inside here and outside as well.
We don't have them. Nor do we have external supports.
IF some community come back for Leste ..they WON'T be focusing on the n900.
IF some n900 users come back with hopes for using their n900's again.. ...they will be USERS...not what you are asking for.

waiting for Leste to solve these issues?
wait all you want.
ALL Leste offers is an alternate OS.
ALL Leste team offers is "how to install it"
IT IS NOT THE LESTE TEAM'S JOB TO MAINTAIN THIS PLACE, WRITE WIKIS FOR YOU, WHATEVER.



The sig link clears everything up nicely.

If you have an issue with the preceding facts there is a help line you can access...
It is in the wiki somewhere..
to access the helpline..
I suggest
study
reading
research and
learning...

and I am sure you will find that call centre help line.

I think there is again a misunderstanding between us or something. At least I am a bit confused about the message you sent.

In this thread about the security of N900 I wanted to know what happened to the matters which had been discussed in this thread but which were left there, unanswered and in the air. Now at last you gave the answers that there's no Nokia devs keeping things updated (I hear and understand), Mozilla is not updating and supporting browser side (I hear and understand), the base of Maemo is closed and can't be updated (I hear and understand). The conclusion which I make is that Maemo as it is now can't really be updated about the security as should be possible. Am I correct?

Now what the purpose of Leste is I understand it is been done to change this situation, to have the base open source and to be able to be patched, to be able to have updated browser, to be able to have secure Os again. Am I correct?

From this viewpoint my claim "it is better to wait Leste than to try to find answers from the forum how to fix the security of the present system" seems valid. I don't see how this would be incorrect.

I don't think I am the centre of the world or universe. In my own job I have been the one doing a lot of manuals for people, have managed them, have wrote instructions to people who don't know things. I like to do it. I like to help people. I hoped I would have got enough answers to my questions so that I could have wrote a guide myself. But in this area I have not enough knowledge. I could go through the forums to get the knowledge but I will not wan't to do it in vain if there are no real solutions to fix the present situation. That is why I say to otherones who try to find answers to the security matters: better wait for Leste.

It will fix the problems about the security which is discussed in this thread and which can't be fixed right now. So I have understood, so I say. Leste being "just another Os on this device"? Why then they even bother if it doesn't change anything? I believe it will change.

When I found out how to make chromium 57 work on this system I tried to write very detailed instructions of how to do it. I am willing to write instructions and help others and not just waiting to be served.

I apologize if the way I asked the questions and made suggestions had that kind of tone in them that made someone to feel I just wan't to be served. That is not my ethos and intention. I am willing to give to the community and thought I had shown it already.

I suggest you re read my last post.

You seem to be having a problem understanding.

Especially concerning points D, E and F

Especially concerning this whole "wait for Leste " issue to fix forum and community wiki and how to ...issues.
To reiterate...
It isn't the mandate of the Leste team to do that.
The Leste teams mandate is to get the next maemo os functioning on devices and show how to install it.
Nothing more.

You were quite explanatory.
You were quite succinct...in what you wanted and where it should be provided ...

Unfortunately it has consumed much time and many posts saying the exact same facts over and over again to get it through to you ..

I don't think there is a misunderstanding .

I am just making sure you are informed.

And now being informed ...
You can like the situation as it has been for years now...
Or not...
You can either study and learn ..and consequently change the things that need changing ...
Or not.

It is pretty straightforward and simple.

And now ...that being done ..
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for me to keep reiterating the facts of the matter concerning the state of things here.

I suggest you find a different dead horse to beat...
I have taken enough "whacks" at it...
and am done.

Hmm, a wiki is a wiki because it can be updated and corrected by just about anybody. So I encourage updating it for example when you find something that's not yet mentioned there.
You even gain karma points for it

Yup it can be updated and corrected by just about anybody...
preferably updated and corrected by "somebody" who is knowledgeable on the topic at hand, has the learning to do so, and the necessary answers...
Not just updated by "anybody" writing god knows what ..
Otherwise we then have an unreliable mess made by "anybody" ...
to rely upon for proper information.
Then that would not be helpful...
It would be terribly damaging.

All that being said...
"Anybody" being able to update or put entries into the wiki ...
even "Somebody" who has is knowledgeable and has a clue...doing the same...
Then why do we have..on the whole... an outdated wiki at all?

I defer back to my original statement ...
We do not have the devoted knowledgeable staffing or enough knowledgeable forum members willing to do time for forum management to upkeep even a public - accessible and public - alterable wiki.
I STILL rest my case on the issue of not enough numbers of folks here for the critical mass necessary to run the place as it used to be run.
The facts don't change.

There seems to be misunderstanding. I ment that because N900 has now so much closed source stuff that it is not possible to make it really secure (if I understood correct what you said earlier and what others have said too) there is no point searching the wiki now trying to find solutions that aren't there. When Leste is ready then the situation is different with the updated software. Am I right or wrong so far? If I am wrong about the value of an updated Os and the benefits of it to security of N900 please correct me.

The ones making leste - never thought them to be the ones who are to update the wiki. I understand that the members of this community will update it when someone gets things done and finds right solutions as it has been done before. And Leste will have it's own section here as other Oses.

When I learn something usefull I can be the one updating the wiki for sure.

I think there was some kind of misunderstanding here. Everything started on a wrong foot. But now I think the one who finds this thread with the topic of security of N900 knows a bit more of the situation and it is not a total dead end as it was before when I posted my questions. I see value here. Hope others too.