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2009-04-10
, 09:28
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#42
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Originally Posted by mullf
For a long time it was clear Maemo 5 will be optimized for finger-based touch usage instead of stylus.
What a load of ****.
Have a stylus-driven option and a finger-driven option.
Maemo 4 was a mix of both; and this either 1) doesn't work 2) is a lot of work, and therefore costs a lot of money and community contribution.
But hey, you're free to grab Mer and a stylus, use Maemo 4, or make a stylus mod or...
Originally Posted by tso
Those are Evil, and phased out.
just look at all the webpages and stuff that have mouseover events. how do you trigger stuff like that with a stylus or finger?!
Originally Posted by daperl
Ehh... well, to avoid your wife from getting pregnant. Or in some cultures, to remain maiden. FWIW I'm glad my hands can deal with required precision.
Anyway, besides the obvious processor improvement, it seems that Nokia is running away from me and into the arms of the trendy. My kid doesn't even finger paint any more, why the f*ck should I?
There is a positive side to so many apparently negative 'trends'.
Did you know the usage of SMS and chat language enhances the phonetics ability in children?
Maybe if our kids got more outside they'd actually be less depressed and less fat? Or more often driven over by a car? Who knows.
New trends and usage paterns demand new ways of interaction and thinking just like old ways are not always worse in every regard.
Microsoft won from IBM, and VHS won from Betamax. We're witnessing how the old media such as newspapers are adapting. People don't want VHS, Betamax, CD, DVD, HD-DVD, MC, DAT, Blu-Ray, SD, CF. They want a few formats and that is it. Some are worth it for manufacturers to offer backwards compatibility; some not. People don't want 100 newspapers, 1000 news websites, 10 tv news, and all that either. They want a few sources. Else you get information overflow. Trend-wise, all of Nokia's competitors are releasing touchscreen based smartphones. Even Palm is catching up. Finally, Nokia too, with 5800 and this summer N97. Does that mean Nokia is only making touchscreen phones? Ofcourse not. They'll release many different types of phones. They've done that for years.
But others, like Apple, don't. And you sometimes cannot have it both ways. As I said it isn't possible to optimize for both finger and stylus. Yes, you can use a finger optimized UI with a stylus and vice versa. In the former you're not using your screen and application space optimally, in the latter you need to be precise, lucky, and get used to trial and error. None of these 2 is user-friendly for normal users who expect a device to Just Work.
Painting and liqbase sketching is indeed not possible with finger. Or, well, very cumbersome. At least on this this size of screen in this UI. So you'd need a N8x0 for that, RX-51 with 3rd party stylus, or if you're serious and worth your money: a Wacom.
And the kids of our kids will use a touchscreen table to play with finger painting, play RTS, and compose music. No worries...
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-04-10 at 11:13.
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2009-04-10
, 12:15
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#43
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And the kids of our kids will use a touchscreen table to play with finger painting, play RTS, and compose music. No worries...
Personally, I would prefer a currently non-existant hybrid approach, very similar to the mouse+keboard duality - optimize for finger and stylus SIMULTANEOUSLY, and not exclusively. For example, simple music player controls - stop, play, next, volume are likely 'fire and forget' style single actions, which are likely to be used with fingers. OTOH I *don't* want to muck through text, advanced settings, file dialogs with a finger based input. I understand the need for continuity BUT I think UI designers calculate people to be more inert, lazy, unwilling to learn to interact than they really are (and are thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy). As you could've guessed by now, I'm in the stylus camp and rarely use finger input except for the most basic tasks.
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2009-04-10
, 12:59
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#44
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
... how one single sentence can tell you didn't read my post at all.
No, I don't see myself pulling out a stylus and clicking on a small stylus optimized box while running
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2009-04-10
, 13:08
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Posts: 1,635 |
Thanked: 1,816 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
@ Manchester, England
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#45
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Originally Posted by attila77
Not necessarily so. Of course, maybe that will be an option, but as 'hand' based (touchscreen falls here) is limited in so many ways, it will likely never be an only input option (I challenge you to a finger input vs mouse controlled RTS contest any day). That's why today even on the desktop you have complementary use of keyboard and mice. You could do ALL your tasks with either, but there are inputs at which spatial sucks, and there are inputs for which informational input sucks. And we don't have finger-on-screen as it would suck in just too many ways even if we limit the use-case scenarions for it as a mouse replacement.
Personally, I would prefer a currently non-existant hybrid approach, very similar to the mouse+keboard duality - optimize for finger and stylus SIMULTANEOUSLY, and not exclusively. For example, simple music player controls - stop, play, next, volume are likely 'fire and forget' style single actions, which are likely to be used with fingers. OTOH I *don't* want to muck through text, advanced settings, file dialogs with a finger based input. I understand the need for continuity BUT I think UI designers calculate people to be more inert, lazy, unwilling to learn to interact than they really are (and are thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy). As you could've guessed by now, I'm in the stylus camp and rarely use finger input except for the most basic tasks.
This is very true and something liqbase manages.
On the menus and font screens, large touchable items appear.
I do not need a stylus to jump around the menus or to perform simple tasks.
It is only when I get into actually drawing do I realistically need the stylus
Did you know by the way, on the main liqbase menus of the released version, there is a small corner widget area on EVERY menu item.. (top right)
you never catch it when you use finger, but it could be used with a pen to do advanced stuff.
(its not now, its just academic)
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liqbase sketching the future.
like what i say? hit the Thanks, thanks!
twitter.com/lcuk
liqbase sketching the future.
like what i say? hit the Thanks, thanks!
twitter.com/lcuk
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2009-04-10
, 13:16
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Posts: 2,427 |
Thanked: 2,986 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#46
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Originally Posted by benny1967
Blinded by stylus envy.
... how one single sentence can tell you didn't read my post at all.
__________________
N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
| The Following User Says Thank You to daperl For This Useful Post: | ||
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2009-04-10
, 13:24
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#47
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Originally Posted by daperl
Oh my god! "stylus envy"... why don't I ever come up with these phrases!?
Blinded by stylus envy.
I'll have to remember this, it's really cool.
Thx for making my week.
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2009-04-10
, 13:32
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Posts: 2,427 |
Thanked: 2,986 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#48
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Originally Posted by benny1967
Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.
Oh my god! "stylus envy"... why don't I ever come up with these phrases!?
I'll have to remember this, it's really cool.
Thx for making my week.
And don't forget to tip the veal and try your waitress.
__________________
N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
Last edited by daperl; 2009-04-10 at 13:34.
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2009-04-10
, 19:25
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#49
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Originally Posted by jolouis
Game changing? I don't remember saying that.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't that one of the big appeals that Maemo and the tablets have always had; the only difference was anything that was GNOME/GTK, instead of now anything that's QT, so I don't really see how this a "Game changing" development or is going to make native app building any better or worse in theory... I haven't used both extensively, but the impression I get is that QT is much more mature and broad than GTK, but that really doesn't change the fact that both provide the idea of "you can develop natively regardless of your IS devel environment and port anywhere else with a re-compile"; after all, a huge chunk of the apps we have on the tablets right now are simply native Linux apps that have been recompiled for ARM using the Maemo SDK...
I can understand how that was implied, though with the 'easier' adverb.Seriously though, I think that using an OS independent layer is a good idea for broad-development, whatever it may be; we're alike in this opinion. I don't know too much about the gnome environment other than it seems to be appropriated as a Desktop Environment, and QT an application development framework. As such, Gnome (and its apps) are more largely localised to Linux Desktops and distributions, while QT apps seem a bit more cosmopolitan.
This is an advantage to using QT as a cross-platform toolkit, and should be more attractive to developers. Of course, it's not a game changer -- I would not imply it as such.
YARR!
}:^)~
Wait for it.... Corrupt!
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2009-04-10
, 22:40
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#50
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One more thing regarding QT:
The move to adopt QT not only provides a mature and stable platform for developing applications, it also hedges against disaster scenarios due to implosion of a particular device/os, and insulates developers simultaneously. Lastly, due to the cross-platform nature of QT, Nokia will save BIG money/time trying to develop and debug new SDKs for future devices.
Check out this article released today:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4...30.html?kc=rss
Consider the implications of the QT toolset in the current mobile market, and Nokia's revealed plans.
1) A toolkit ready for development for Maemo, Symbian, and other Linux distros. This is significant because Nokia is openly pursuing Maemo *and* Symbian, as well as the netbook market (OS undisclosed -- but it doesn't really matter).
2) A loose and empowering LGPL.
.... I smell an app store, but not one limited to a particular platform or generation of product!
YARR!
}:^)~
"Aye Capt'n" said he.
The move to adopt QT not only provides a mature and stable platform for developing applications, it also hedges against disaster scenarios due to implosion of a particular device/os, and insulates developers simultaneously. Lastly, due to the cross-platform nature of QT, Nokia will save BIG money/time trying to develop and debug new SDKs for future devices.
Check out this article released today:
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4...30.html?kc=rss
Consider the implications of the QT toolset in the current mobile market, and Nokia's revealed plans.
1) A toolkit ready for development for Maemo, Symbian, and other Linux distros. This is significant because Nokia is openly pursuing Maemo *and* Symbian, as well as the netbook market (OS undisclosed -- but it doesn't really matter).
2) A loose and empowering LGPL.
.... I smell an app store, but not one limited to a particular platform or generation of product!
YARR!
}:^)~
"Aye Capt'n" said he.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 01:49.
There are 2 requirements:
1) Device static attached or with minimal vibration; does not necessary imply user is not in motion. The OS can take into account the user is performing a certain task therefore be more fault tolerant. This is what a touchscreen UI for finger already does while one for stylus is much more akin to desktop UI allowing less fault tolerant but also less false positives. A good balance between the 2 is necessary.
2) The buttons need to be big enough; optimal usage of screen. Personally, I found this to be much more fault tolerant than stylus. Potential obvious disadvantage is less available screen size whereas potentional advantage of that is less noise for user. Using HIG and consistency can get you already very far in this regard.
With iPod player on iPod touch this is the case. With pages optimized for iPhone this is the case. With pages optimized for T9 (Opera, Skyfire) this is the case. With pages optimized for desktop browsers this is not the case. I'm not sure if an interface like Canola would suffice, but I'd bet the designers did a damn hard job trying so.
Whether I'd use my N810, iPod touch or E71 I could use either of these to check RSS feeds while walking because their interface is good enough for performing this. Same for e-mail.
What you say was true for N8x0 and 770. The new direction is 24/7 connectivity, outside, mobile, and touchscreen for finger with a usage somewhere between smartphones and netbooks. For portable inside/static we also have stuff like laptops and netbooks. However you don't grab those out of your pockets while waiting in the grocery store. You can do that with your smartphone. Or N8x0.
There are specific situations where T9 is best. There are situations where a combination of T9 and slide out keyboard is best. There are situations where an external BlueTooth keyboard is best. There are situations where stylus is best. And there are situations where finger is best. There are a lot of reasons why one is better than the other, but it isn't true one is irrelevant and useless. Which appears to be what you're trying to argue.
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!