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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-04-22 , 16:37
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#41
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
I have seen people buy a Ford car, and replace the motor and drivetrain with Chevy parts. Seems like it would have been easier buy a Chevy and tweak it instead. There appear to be some interesting competitors on the horizon, hopefully Nokia won't loose too many current customers to them.
Any good stylus UI based competitors that you could mention?
 
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daperl is offline daperl
2009-04-22 , 16:41
Posts: 2,427 | Thanked: 2,986 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#42
As GA suggested earlier, I might not know what I'm talking about. So, with what lemmyslender just said and some thoughts I just had, I will make something of a retraction.

Maybe what Nokia said or meant to say was that we currently have 2 on-screen keyboards and we're going to eliminate one while not eliminating any use cases. With the addition of clutter and a compositing window manager, the sky might be the limit. So maybe, just maybe, all of us stylus keyboard people have nothing to fear.

Currently, I'm more interested in application level changes, and that's why I have not paid much attention to Maemo 5 Alpha. If the Beta reveals that the finger keyboard can be manipulated to act and stay like a stylus keyboard, maybe all will be well. Now that would be some positive speculation that I could get behind. But if this is true, then my opinion is Nokia could have been more clear about this. Also if this is true, having a one-liner in a presentation that says "Removal of stylus keyboard" is FUD. If this is false, everything I said previously stands.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-04-22 , 17:07
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#43
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
If the Beta reveals that the finger keyboard can be manipulated to act and stay like a stylus keyboard, maybe all will be well. Now that would be some positive speculation that I could get behind. But if this is true, then my opinion is Nokia could have been more clear about this. Also if this is true, having a one-liner in a presentation that says "Removal of stylus keyboard" is FUD. If this is false, everything I said previously stands.
Perhaps you should explain what a finger keyboard that can "act and stay like a stylus keyboard" actually means, since the paragraph I'm quoting makes zero sense.
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sachin007 is offline sachin007
2009-04-22 , 17:27
Posts: 2,041 | Thanked: 1,066 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Houston
#44
A little off topic but i recently used the thumb keyboard on a nokia 5800 phone and was impressed with it. Especially the tactile feedback was very helpful.

But what i dont understand is why to take away something which has already been developed. Especially since the fremantle stars contains some stylus friendly programs i expect that nokia will ship the stylus along with device. If that is the case one can always add one more settings in the keyboard settings menu so that people can choose what they want.

I dont want nokia act like apple and choose for us. I hope they let us choose.
 

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lemmyslender is offline lemmyslender
2009-04-22 , 17:34
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#45
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Perhaps you should explain what a finger keyboard that can "act and stay like a stylus keyboard" actually means, since the paragraph I'm quoting makes zero sense.
I assume the addition of "can be made to" is the key phrase you overlooked.

If the onscreen keyboard can be edited through a config file, one might be able to resize keys, create a different keymap, add/remove keys, etc. Basically customize the keyboard *relatively easily* to suit their personal needs.

There was a least one excellent program for Palm that would let you replace "skin" the default palm keyboard with another one. The included keyboard with easily editable and customizable.

I believe daperl is suggesting something like that.
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-04-22 , 17:45
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#46
Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
I assume the addition of "can be made to" is the key phrase you overlooked.
Perhaps daperl is missing some technical details or I'm still not getting it. In your proposal, a working stylus keyboard has nothing at all to do with the finger keyboard.

Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
If the onscreen keyboard can be edited through a config file, one might be able to resize keys, create a different keymap, add/remove keys, etc. Basically customize the keyboard *relatively easily* to suit their personal needs.
I linked to Hildon Input Method the last time this was discussed (we just love to run around in circles around here), perhaps you should read up on it.
 
glabifrons is offline glabifrons
2009-04-22 , 18:16
Posts: 149 | Thanked: 134 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Florida
#47
Before anyone goes off on "but it's not confirmed", my response is directed to the below quoted comments.

Originally Posted by deadmalc View Post
Doesn't anyone think that getting rid of the stylus is a good thing?
Whilst the stylus is essential for the n800/n810 for a lot of web stuff, it's more
annoying having to use it.
Forcing apps to use finger touch makes it less "fiddly"

Was wondering what people actually use the dpad for, browsing etc?
Again I'd be happier if the finger touch improves and no dpad.

Maybe that's just my take on it? or am I missing the dpad/stylus usage?
I am of the exact opposite opinion.
I find using the finger interface imprecise and awkward... I'd much rather use the stylus.

While I don't have sausage-fingers, my fingers are no-where near dainty enough to be able to even unlock the screen on the 1st try (ever). I almost have to use the stylus for that.

Also, my fingers are MUCH bigger than the stylus... I can't imagine playing any games with my finger blocking 10%+ of the screen.
How could you possibly play any tablet-oriented games like breakout or Numpty-Physics with your finger? (even the stylus isn't precise enough sometimes)

And you even mentioned web browsing... perfect example.
THIS SITE's front page is impossible to navigate with fingers even when zoomed! The stylus is barely precise enough to click the posting links from the front page.

Do you seriously use your fingers _only_ on the tablet? (or was this just a troll?)
 

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nilchak is offline nilchak
2009-04-22 , 18:24
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#48
I lost my stylus yesterday, and all I have are my fingers.

So while Diablo indeed cannot be totally operated with fingers only (as the previous poster mentioned), I hope and SPECULATE that the Fremantle version will work flawlessly with fngers only and we can lose the stylus.

In fact the stylus is sooo 1999. Maybe I will take the guitar pecks over that old input device. Lets get imaginative here. And I certainly will take fingers (except the middle one) any day.
 
lemmyslender is offline lemmyslender
2009-04-22 , 18:26
Posts: 968 | Thanked: 974 times | Joined on Nov 2008 @ Ohio
#49
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Any good stylus UI based competitors that you could mention?
Not that I recall seeing (other than never having a problem using a Palm TX prior to the N800). I didn't necessarily mean that I am only considering stylus based UI's either.

For instance the Touchbook discussed here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=27245

With the larger screen at the same resolution, using an onscreen keyboard similar to the current stylus keyboard or the matchbox keyboard becomes much more feasible. The keys would be almost twice the size. Thus, much easier to hit accurately. There are obviously some downsides as well. However, based on my needs/wants, price, and availability, it could well be a contender for my money.

I'm not opposed to a finger based UI. For instance I think many of the current crop of touch screen phones benefit from having a finger based UI. It seems that the more complex a task the phone is required to do, the more likely it is to have a stylus to allow for efficient operation, which is different from easy operation.
 
nilchak is offline nilchak
2009-04-22 , 18:38
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#50
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
press menu key, navigate through menus with d-pad.
navigate through applications.
it's the most "mobile" means of input the device offers.
But I think "Menus" (small font lists with hidden sub lists iterating till the nth level) are the most un-"mobile" method relevant to the desktop only.

So if on the mobile Fremantle version we can lose the "menus" and make them feel like "easily selectable choices", then we can propably lose the D-Pad too.

But personally I still want a D-pad to be able to scroll across large list of "easily selectable choices"
 
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