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| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to attila77 For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-04-27
, 07:13
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#42
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Experience has thus far taught me to be highly critical of efforts like this when the manufacturer(s) aren't involved, show no interest is participating and can't show the intellect and entrepreneurship to find a way to capitalize on a product they have already put into adoption by the very type of audience that might best benefit them overall. Frack.. I can't even get a damned stylus, nevermind a replacement kickstand, screen or fresher operating system, even if the community wanted to maintain it.
Convince me otherwise. I DARE you. Don't tell me how awesome everything WILL be. Give me some tangible evidence that Nokia or TI or ANYBODY involved gives a care about the N8x0 series or that they aren't already doing the same dances around the N900 now.
Convince me otherwise. I DARE you. Don't tell me how awesome everything WILL be. Give me some tangible evidence that Nokia or TI or ANYBODY involved gives a care about the N8x0 series or that they aren't already doing the same dances around the N900 now.
| The Following User Says Thank You to danramos For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-04-27
, 18:42
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 367 times |
Joined on Mar 2009
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#43
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Fixed that for you.
We already have skilled people successfully getting a modern kernel on it. MeeGo, is - probably much to everyone's joy, consistent with many of the "ambitious Mer" goals and also backed by substantial resources and is a platform a lot of different device vendors, communities, etc will use. This work on the platform would be directly transferable to our N8x0 devices.
If I were you, I would have really conflicted feelings: "MeeGo is so cool!" and "I spent a lot of time on something that might not live on!" But I agree with the approach of spending time where it seems most profitable, even if it seems like ADHD to some. If MeeGo on the N8x0 is really a credible option, then it seems like that's the approach that has the most future to it. Plus, there's the whole issue of reducing fragmentation & redundant open-source projects. But it's a judgment call.
Originally Posted by danramos
I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, Dan, or why you are choosing this forum to try to accomplish it. Are you sure you're talking to the right people?
Convince me otherwise. I DARE you. Don't tell me how awesome everything WILL be. Give me some tangible evidence that Nokia or TI or ANYBODY involved gives a care about the N8x0 series or that they aren't already doing the same dances around the N900 now.
__________________
* n810 since Feb 2009
* Most-used apps: Opera, gPodder, Panucci, Tomiku, Canola, Quasar, MaemoMapper, ATI85, Maemopad+, AisleRiot Solitaire, Anagramarama, Rapier, Gnumeric, pyRDesktop
* Mobile-friendly URLs of popular sites
* n810 since Feb 2009
* Most-used apps: Opera, gPodder, Panucci, Tomiku, Canola, Quasar, MaemoMapper, ATI85, Maemopad+, AisleRiot Solitaire, Anagramarama, Rapier, Gnumeric, pyRDesktop
* Mobile-friendly URLs of popular sites
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2010-04-27
, 18:56
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#44
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Originally Posted by buurmas
Personally I did have very conflicting feelings but ended up with the one saying "They're doing what we wanted them to do and even further". I spent a year and more on Mer and all the things I learnt in there, I can use in MeeGo. Personally and professionally. Now, there's no doubt - MeeGo is the way ahead. We know the future now, before we didn't. Makes for better planning.
Fixed that for you.
If I were you, I would have really conflicted feelings: "MeeGo is so cool!" and "I spent a lot of time on something that might not live on!" But I agree with the approach of spending time where it seems most profitable, even if it seems like ADHD to some
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2010-04-27
, 20:12
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#45
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Originally Posted by buurmas
You don't know what I'm trying to accomplish? This thread is about Meego coming to the N8x0 series, is it not? As someone that's owned said device for a few years now and watched all sorts of support get dismissed aside (particularly hostile experiences with getting parts or even a reasonable way to get repairs), even the software end of things feels hopeless. I like the device Nokia made but once purchased, it plateaued quickly and then slowly became a downhill experience and the last several months felt like an unstoppable careening downhill plunge.
I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, Dan, or why you are choosing this forum to try to accomplish it. Are you sure you're talking to the right people?
The point here is that I would like to think that the N8x0 will get a proper update or newer OS, but since there's really nothing usable out there, it's been relegated to hack device with nothing DONE.
I fear that this is yet another attempt to reignite our enthusiasm where the past experiences have managed to sap it away. I would LIKE to at least see that Nokia, TI and other contributing manufacturers of our devices are interested and dedicated enough to actually DELIVER something along with the community, not just relegating us to owning now nearly-useless devices due to outdated software (drivers, kernel, etc.) and frustrating those of us with some more promises of something that will never get finished or at least become useful enough to tell my associates and friends who were stupid enough to follow me and buy one of these devices that YES--you can get this and it DOES make it a useful device!
I've tried Mer. It looked promising and it actually ran. Not well, though. It still felt like it was hacked together with NO repositories or software I could install. Useless for me to recommend to anyone. I feel crestfallen that now things are shifted to Meego and it feels like history is repeating.
What am I trying to accomplish? As a previously-happy-but-now-frustrated device owner, I want to see something come of it. The better question is, what are the Mer/Maemo/Meego folks who're promising things for the N8x0 actually accomplishing?
Originally Posted by Stskeeps
It's fine and well to say you learned from the experience, but why didn't you get more help from Nokia or the other manufacturers of the components so that progress could actually be made instead of only ending up with a partially-working operating system? I don't think I can blame you--it sounds like you're doing the RIGHT things, but I am absolutely furious that the hardware, drivers and kernel aren't supported better from the very people who provided this stuff in the first place.
Personally I did have very conflicting feelings but ended up with the one saying "They're doing what we wanted them to do and even further". I spent a year and more on Mer and all the things I learnt in there, I can use in MeeGo. Personally and professionally. Now, there's no doubt - MeeGo is the way ahead. We know the future now, before we didn't. Makes for better planning.
It's at least good to hear you've got a clear idea of a direction to go in. But, I thought we were also pretty clear that Fremantle patching into Mer was the clear way ahead too. **sigh**
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to danramos For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-04-27
, 20:26
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Posts: 1,359 |
Thanked: 717 times |
Joined on May 2009
@ ...standing right behind you...
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#46
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Originally Posted by danramos
I agree. Frustrating to say the least. I also feel that it's a bit of a cop out to use stuff like "we didn't know where to go...now we do" as that is never known in any project one embark upon.
It's fine and well to say you learned from the experience, but why didn't you get more help from Nokia or the other manufacturers of the components so that progress could actually be made instead of only ending up with a partially-working operating system? I don't think I can blame you--it sounds like you're doing the RIGHT things, but I am absolutely furious that the hardware, drivers and kernel aren't supported better from the very people who provided this stuff in the first place.
It's at least good to hear you've got a clear idea of a direction to go in. But, I thought we were also pretty clear that Fremantle patching into Mer was the clear way ahead too. **sigh**
There is absolutely nothing to say that something won't come up in a few months time that will create a new project reset and that the future NOW is known.
I feel somewhat awkward 'blaming' anyone in a situation like this as it's community driven/run (unless stskeepes is getting paid by Nokia?) and I have no means of contributing to the effort (not a developer) apart from testing stuff. Anyway, I do feel strongly that to me, and possibly to others who have followed the Mer, Mer2, MeeGo threads, that this was an absolutely horrendous project management effort where expectations were not set correctly and where paths were gone done [too publicly] before they were more investigated. And maybe Stskeepes did the right 'things' but it does seem as they were done with poor planning, poor management and lousy support [or too few requests?] from Nokia.
__________________
.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
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2010-04-27
, 20:33
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Posts: 23 |
Thanked: 12 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#47
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This project is very relevant to my interests.
Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Discussion topics:
* What should be our deployment target? My suggestion is to target at least a 2GB (mini/micro)SD card and boot from there.
* What should be initial (realistic) hardware usable for MeeGo 1.0 with N8x0 HW adaptation? Remember, MeeGo 1.0 is in May
* Should we even care about the 3d drivers or should we look into OpenVG for Qt for instance?
* What would be useful to have Nokia provide in a tablets-dev.nokia.com RPM repository (closed source bits), so people can generate images with the bits.
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2010-04-27
, 20:41
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#48
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Originally Posted by silvermountain
Yes, exactly. I'm not sure I can add much more to that particular point.
I agree. Frustrating to say the least. I also feel that it's a bit of a cop out to use stuff like "we didn't know where to go...now we do" as that is never known in any project one embark upon.
There is absolutely nothing to say that something won't come up in a few months time that will create a new project reset and that the future NOW is known.
Originally Posted by silvermountain
I don't get the sense that he's paid by Nokia--maybe I'm wrong--but I do get the sense that he's trying to write Mer/Mer2 in a general (generic) way so that it can be expanded to run on many devices and that may have contributed to the slow progress on this one platform. I still feel that THAT particular aspect could have probably been helped along by better cooperation from the hardware manufacturers and driver developers. Fffffffffffffffffffffffu...........
I feel somewhat awkward 'blaming' anyone in a situation like this as it's community driven/run (unless stskeepes is getting paid by Nokia?) and I have no means of contributing to the effort (not a developer) apart from testing stuff. Anyway, I do feel strongly that to me, and possibly to others who have followed the Mer, Mer2, MeeGo threads, that this was an absolutely horrendous project management effort where expectations were not set correctly and where paths were gone done [too publicly] before they were more investigated. And maybe Stskeepes did the right 'things' but it does seem as they were done with poor planning, poor management and lousy support [or too few requests?] from Nokia.
Aw well. I'm inching that much closer to just giving up on the thing. I barely use my N800 anymore now that I got a phone with Android on it--and I REALLY prefer to have a pocket computing device OUTSIDE my phone to do most things. If Nokia ever hopes that IT customers buy more of their stuff, they really need to do a better job of support all-around. This includes participating in open source--not just SAYING they do. Pointing at Google and saying, 'were doing more than they are' isn't impressing me anymore.
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2010-04-27
, 20:51
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Posts: 1,359 |
Thanked: 717 times |
Joined on May 2009
@ ...standing right behind you...
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#49
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Originally Posted by danramos
I'm not giving up on my N810 yet - and I use it for exactly the same reasons as you - as a tablet away from the phone.
Aw well. I'm inching that much closer to just giving up on the thing. I barely use my N800 anymore now that I got a phone with Android on it--and I REALLY prefer to have a pocket computing device OUTSIDE my phone to do most things.
Instead I am trying to get interesting N900 developments ported to Diablo (as I am now rather certain that Diablo is the last OS we will see on N8x0's) and people like epage and our new Russian friends have been great at that (makes me wish I could develop (I tried years ago and don't have the brains [for it]) - and finding web apps that runs well (like Tweetgo.net).
Originally Posted by danramos
i think it is apparent to many people now that an 'almost open' OS run on a single/VERY few devices means that you as locked in and 'held hostage' by the manufacturer as if you were running an iDevice. "More" here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44634
If Nokia ever hopes that IT customers buy more of their stuff, they really need to do a better job of support all-around. This includes participating in open source--not just SAYING they do. Pointing at Google and saying, 'were doing more than they are' isn't impressing me anymore.
__________________
.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
Last edited by silvermountain; 2010-04-27 at 21:03.
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2010-04-27
, 21:06
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#50
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Originally Posted by danramos
Right, so, you can keep on arguing and moaning about this, but please do it in another thread. This is a thread for making things happen, not to moan about the past. Feel free to fork the thread and have these arguments in the new thread and I'll gladly engage in this discussion there- let's not hijack this thread for this.
I don't get the sense that he's paid by Nokia--maybe I'm wrong--but I do get the sense that he's trying to write Mer/Mer2 in a general (generic) way so that it can be expanded to run on many devices and that may have contributed to the slow progress on this one platform. I still feel that THAT particular aspect could have probably been helped along by better cooperation from the hardware manufacturers and driver developers. Fffffffffffffffffffffffu...........
I've set up a review thread for my work, feel free to do it there.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
Last edited by Stskeeps; 2010-04-27 at 21:56.
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