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festivalnut is offline festivalnut
2010-04-15 , 18:37
Posts: 889 | Thanked: 537 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ scotland
#41
Originally Posted by Dak View Post
Correct. The point being that there is a seemingly infinite set of things we don't know, yet despite this most profound state of ignorance we presume to assert that saving 5 is somehow 'better' than saving one.

The point at which you decide to pull that switch (with no deeper knowledge of the people involved than their count) is the point at which you become an active decisive participant in a process that will end life.

That's significant. Far more significant than some cheap pop-psychology conundrum.
the point at which you decide to ignore the problem makes you a participant, infact as soon as you observe the situation and realise you could make a difference you are a participant. being an "inactive" participant just means you lack the stones to do anything. and in this example yes saving five people is better than saving one, knowing more about them doesn't help, its one thing to do the maths with 5 equal lifes, another to start judging which lives are worth more than others
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anidel is offline anidel
2010-04-15 , 18:37
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#42
And btw I would ask Jack Bauer as he's always dealing with these kind of situation daily for the last 8 days at least.
 
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anidel is offline anidel
2010-04-15 , 18:39
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#43
On a serious note, I would choose to save the 5 people all the times.
Sorry man...
 
Luz is offline Luz
2010-04-15 , 18:39
Posts: 87 | Thanked: 37 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#44
Originally Posted by Dak View Post
No friend of mine would object to being stood up for some quality poontang...so I'd throw the old lady in the back, play the hero so the hot chick swoons into the front seat, and burn off into the sunset where rampant heroic sex awaits...hopefully with the hot chick, but if not, I doubt an old bag in cardiac arrest will be much of a struggle.
lol!!!

that last bit made me laugh!!!
 
mmurfin87 is offline mmurfin87
2010-04-15 , 18:44
Posts: 307 | Thanked: 157 times | Joined on Jul 2009 @ Illinois, USA
#45
Originally Posted by Dak View Post
The point at which you decide to pull that switch (with no deeper knowledge of the people involved than their count) is the point at which you become an active decisive participant in a process that will end life.

That's significant. Far more significant than some cheap pop-psychology conundrum.
The point at which you become aware of the situation you become a part of it. If you are aware of your ability to save 5 people then it becomes a question of costs. Doing nothing to save those 5 people when you are aware of a way to avert their fate puts some responsibility on you. Certainly not as much as the person who knowingly put the whole charade in motion, but you still have some.

The question then becomes, does the cost involved with in killing one person outweigh the profits of saving 5 people?

Simple moral economics.

But make no mistake, if you are aware of something, you are a part of it and thus share responsibility in its outcome.
 
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Sopwith is offline Sopwith
2010-04-15 , 19:00
Posts: 337 | Thanked: 283 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ NYC
#46
Maemo MorTality
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RevdKathy is offline RevdKathy
2010-04-15 , 19:01
Posts: 2,173 | Thanked: 2,678 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Cornwall, UK
#47
If the brakes are out, how is the train going to stop when it reaches the terminus? The people on the train are alll doomed anyway!

Anyway, what if I carry a knife to cut the ropes with? (Not to mention dialling 999 on my n900 as I do so)

It's easy: I'd scoff so much chocolate that I'd become as fat as the fat man, and then interpose my podgy self between the train and the people on the tracks. That way, the only life lost is mine, and cadbury's shares rise through the roof.
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omri is offline omri
2010-04-15 , 19:02
Posts: 14 | Thanked: 14 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#48
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
The point at which you become aware of the situation you become a part of it. If you are aware of your ability to save 5 people then it becomes a question of costs. Doing nothing to save those 5 people when you are aware of a way to avert their fate puts some responsibility on you. Certainly not as much as the person who knowingly put the whole charade in motion, but you still have some.

The question then becomes, does the cost involved with in killing one person outweigh the profits of saving 5 people?

Simple moral economics.

But make no mistake, if you are aware of something, you are a part of it and thus share responsibility in its outcome.
Even this is a simplification.

I am quite aware that if I go to medical school and become a doctor I have a good chance to save lives. Am I now responsible for these theoretical lives because I chose to be a programmer?
More specifically, lets say I am a doctor. Should I wait by an unsafe intersection in the rain because there is a good likelihood there will be an accident there and I will be able to save people?
What about giving all my money to charity to help starving people somewhere? I choose not to do that. Am I responsible for them?

I am not saying I am not responsible at all in these cases, and I am not saying I am. I am saying responsibility is cultural. There is no universal right or wrong, even within specific morality.
 
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javicq is offline javicq
2010-04-15 , 19:04
Posts: 94 | Thanked: 319 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Barcelona, Spain
#49
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
Nor a savior.
Frankly, I find "not being a murderer" a far more reasonable and desirable goal than "being a savior".

Originally Posted by festivalnut View Post
the point at which you decide to ignore the problem makes you a participant
In some way yes. But not as much as if you actively tried to affect the outcome of the situation. I know that the thought "I actively killed a man" would haunt me for life. "I refused to kill a man to save other 5 that would have died anyway if I wasn't there", not so much.
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Sopwith is offline Sopwith
2010-04-15 , 19:06
Posts: 337 | Thanked: 283 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ NYC
#50
Originally Posted by javicq View Post
Frankly, I find "not being a murderer" a far more reasonable and desirable goal than "being a savior".

There are a few million "reasonable" people behind every dictator...
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