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jedi is offline jedi
2010-09-21 , 17:42
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#41
Originally Posted by Loggy1948 View Post
Nokia have followed Apple's lead in making certain parts of the phone proprietory
LOL! Nokia have been doing phones for much longer than Apple!! And yes - with proprietory firmware/OS.

I'm just thankful that a great deal of Maemo is open-source.
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AMLJ is offline AMLJ
2010-09-21 , 17:49
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#42
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Semantics be damned...

I've never seen a computer lack a true upgrade path before other than a toy or perhaps those OLPC things.

N900 comes with Linux in the form of Maemo 5. No upgrades for any third party nor even first party apps as well as the lack of ability to upgrade the screen, RAM (the swapify trick is just a trick) disqualify it from being called a computer in my book.
Yeah, good. You can call it a "phone" if you like to... Those who know what N900 is, will understand what a computer is, and those who are GNU/Linux hackers, will understand what I mean.

So, in fact, I'm not talking to you or those like you, and I don't care what you think a computer is.

Maybe a phone can have more than 4 operating systems where you live. Dunno...
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Last edited by AMLJ; 2010-09-21 at 17:52.
 
gerbick
2010-09-22 , 02:23
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#43
Originally Posted by AMLJ View Post
Yeah, good. You can call it a "phone" if you like to... Those who know what N900 is, will understand what a computer is, and those who are GNU/Linux hackers, will understand what I mean.
So? A moniker is just a label that makes the people that need comfort find it. Doesn't matter what which label you pick, if it does what it says it can, it'll be that. So when you make a call, it's a phone. When I recompile a kernel on a server I administer, it's a pocket computer. When I need it to work... it better be a functioning gadget.

Either way, I don't care for labels that people fully subscribe to - they change way too ofter according to my use on such a diversified (in terms of functionality) gadget.

I know what a N900 truly is. And at times, it's wonderful. At other times... it's frustrating. Then again, so are other gadgets.

So, in fact, I'm not talking to you or those like you, and I don't care what you think a computer is.
We're alike in this... I don't care what you think a computer is either.

Maybe a phone can have more than 4 operating systems where you live. Dunno...
No need. I just need one OS that works and is officially supported.
 
Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-09-22 , 02:27
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#44
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
No need. I just need one OS that works and is officially supported.
Don't know what your requirements are. But for my requirements I've given up. There's no chance for me finding a device that fits my requirements for an OS. The only thing left is compromises and trade-offs.

Edit: Or a system that can boot into different modes with basic support for the occasional received phone call.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
geneven is offline geneven
2010-09-22 , 02:47
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#45
Originally Posted by msa View Post
obviously the haters jumped on this thread already and started hating instead of answering the given question.

why are so many people in this forum giving "its a real computer" as an excuse for all those flawed elements of the n900?
thats like saying "i know i can die from an car-crash in a dacia when driving 50 km/h, but its ok since its a dacia". no, its not ok!
So we were supposed to dedicate ourselves to answering the following questions from the OP:

" is there any alternative where the unit still works as a phone, 3G, wifi, bluetooth, camera, music etc plus the missing things like mms? Is there any one of these systems that is near to this target?"

Why should we even be interested in those questions or try to answer them? Isn't there somewhere else they could be asked? How about CNET?
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-09-22 , 02:57
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#46
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
No need. I just need one OS that works and is officially supported.
Well.. I don't know what you mean by "upgrade path". Hardware, or OS?

If Hardware, you're right. But then, netbook's and laptops are real pains in the *** to upgrade on the hardware side as well (short maybe a bigger HDD and memory). As far as processor, motherboard, and video card... ouch.

If OS/Software.. there is an upgrade path. MeeGo. Unless you're telling me the gaming desktop I bought in pieces without an OS and built and put Ubuntu Linux on it isn't a "real" computer because I don't have support from someone like Dell, or HP because - well - they didn't build it, I did.

I have the same type of "official" support for MeeGo on my N900 as I do Ubuntu on my Dell, or my custom built, or my HP, or my Acer, or my... etc.

There's a little less of it.. because there is a smaller userbase, as the userbase grows - so too will the support.. which is exactly no different than Ubuntu.

So.. What I'm gathering from your arguments is either I don't have a real computer because I use Ubuntu, or anything not Mac or Windows is not a real OS, and netbook's and laptops aren't "real" computers.. Maybe Nokia and Intel aren't real companies? Maybe I'm not a real boy!! OMFG! I knew there was something familiar about Pinocchio!

Much <3 and chat with you soon, gerb
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craftyguy is offline craftyguy
2010-09-22 , 03:15
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#47
Originally Posted by johnel View Post
...
The n900 is one of the few phones where the screen is visible under sunlight - the n900 screen has a transreflective layer.

....
No it's not. I have this thing mounted in my convertible, and it's unreadable most of the time when it is sunny outside. If it's cloudy, it's perfect. If the N900 trully has a transflective layer, it's one of the shittiest I've seen.
 
gerbick
2010-09-22 , 03:32
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#48
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Well.. I don't know what you mean by "upgrade path". Hardware, or OS?
Actually both, to be honest. Let's add a third part to that... third party application upgrades to the list of things I'd love to see upgraded as well.

If Hardware, you're right. But then, netbook's and laptops are real pains in the *** to upgrade on the hardware side as well (short maybe a bigger HDD and memory). As far as processor, motherboard, and video card... ouch.
Yep. I've been knee deep in some of these netbooks and stuff being soldered onto the motherboards is maddening.

If OS/Software.. there is an upgrade path. MeeGo.
Ah, but I said official support...

Unless you're telling me the gaming desktop I bought in pieces without an OS and built and put Ubuntu Linux on it isn't a "real" computer because I don't have support from someone like Dell, or HP because - well - they didn't build it, I did.
But there's nothing stopping you from going from 9.04 to 10.10 on those aforesaid devices. But... that's the nature of a true PC. I can upgrade because there's an upgrade that's put out that's universally going to fit my device. Whereas Maemo to MeeGo seem to be one of those situations where the upgrade path, despite being on the N900 will not get the packaged (read: closed) bits due to licensing. That would be like Ubuntu not getting a portion of the OS because of some licensing or 3rd party issue. Looks flawed to me.

But that's the difference between a laptop, netbook and a phone. I can upgrade the first two on my own when an update is made available. For a phone (and I'm currently waiting on Samsung to get Froyo out for my Captivate) I have to wait until the vendor comes out with an upgrade; if they will do so.

I hate that difference.

I have the same type of "official" support for MeeGo on my N900 as I do Ubuntu on my Dell, or my custom built, or my HP, or my Acer, or my... etc.
Ubuntu doesn't make hardware, just the OS. And they cover a range of drivers that include multiple devices. Maemo was only for the N900. MeeGo is being developed on the N900. It won't come as a consumer level upgrade like my jump from a prior version of Ubuntu to the latest version (which rocks, btw). By "official" support, I mean that I do not lose any functionality, nor will things be pulled out.

Can't say that about MeeGo on the N900. It's going to be a lacking experience since it's not going to be a one-for-one upgrade. If it is, news to me. If it isn't... I'm right.

There's a little less of it.. because there is a smaller userbase, as the userbase grows - so too will the support.. which is exactly no different than Ubuntu.
So? Nokia is bigger than Ubuntu. Userbase is important, but shouldn't their ability to support people that just got the device - India, Hong Kong for instance - should be paramount.

So.. What I'm gathering from your arguments is either I don't have a real computer because I use Ubuntu, or anything not Mac or Windows is not a real OS, and netbook's and laptops aren't "real" computers..
Nope. We're treating phones as "real computers" when honestly I can: piece together a computer at my own leisure, upgrade a computer OS at my own leisure without depending on my motherboard/CPU/GPU manufacturer and/or change the OS - barring it won't fit or support the pieces I've put into my computer. Just because a phone has computer-like abilities doesn't make it a computer.

Just because a man places boobs on his body, it doesn't make him a woman. It just makes him woman-like... sorta.

Ew. Worst analogy ever.

Maybe Nokia and Intel aren't real companies?
I hope not! I own Nokia stock!

Maybe I'm not a real boy!! OMFG! I knew there was something familiar about Pinocchio!
If you see strings, panic. Tell a lie... does your nose grow? If so, panic. Do you pee whilst standing up? Don't panic. If you knock on wood, do you hit yourself? Panic. Do have an unusual fear of termites? Panic... and run. Did your last lover complain about splinters? Polish.

Much <3 and chat with you soon, gerb
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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-09-22 , 03:46
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#49
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
But there's nothing stopping you from going from 9.04 to 10.10 on those aforesaid devices. But... that's the nature of a true PC. I can upgrade because there's an upgrade that's put out that's universally going to fit my device. Whereas Maemo to MeeGo seem to be one of those situations where the upgrade path, despite being on the N900 will not get the packaged (read: closed) bits due to licensing. That would be like Ubuntu not getting a portion of the OS because of some licensing or 3rd party issue. Looks flawed to me.
Well hold on there. Ubuntu doesn't actually do any support for "hardware" at all. If you have an Nvidia or ATI video card you get extremely shatty 3D unless you get their respective closed source drivers.

That is no different at all between MeeGo on the N900 requiring certain closed source drivers for the components. Currently those drivers are available and active development is done with MeeGo on the N900. There is also a movement, if I recall Stskeeps right, to make those closed components freely distributable. That's not as good as open source, but it's actually better than Ubuntu on my desktop because MeeGo itself can release the Nokia blobs with the OS without relying on Nokia. Ubuntu cannot distribute Nvidia or ATI drivers with their release.

Granted, this hasn't happened yet and is wishful thinking at current time, but it's at least at the same playing field as ATI contributing code to the the open source drivers while still maintaining their closed source counterpart.

But that's the difference between a laptop, netbook and a phone. I can upgrade the first two on my own when an update is made available. For a phone (and I'm currently waiting on Samsung to get Froyo out for my Captivate) I have to wait until the vendor comes out with an upgrade; if they will do so.

I hate that difference.
I agree somewhat. As we both covered earlier, upgrading a laptop is a *****. Technically, if you wanted to completely tear the N900 apart along with a captivate or some other phone you could probably make the hardware work together.. nobody in their right mind would do this, but then - the vast majority of people don't bother upgrading the hardware on their laptops either.

Also, I was running pieces of 2.0 on my G1 long before the first 2.0 device hit market.. You don't need to wait for anybody..


Ubuntu doesn't make hardware, just the OS. And they cover a range of drivers that include multiple devices. Maemo was only for the N900. MeeGo is being developed on the N900. It won't come as a consumer level upgrade like my jump from a prior version of Ubuntu to the latest version (which rocks, btw). By "official" support, I mean that I do not lose any functionality, nor will things be pulled out.
Ubuntu has had multiple releases, MeeGo not yet one. Once you get MeeGo on there there likely will be pointy clicky upgrade ability (or at least, one would hope.) After all, this is all linux - if Ubuntu can do it so can MeeGo. Maemo is dead much like Windows 95 is dead. If you have an old machine with 95 on it, or NT, or 2000.. and you want to put Vista or 2008 on it - You have to reload. Just like your N900 with MeeGo.

Can't say that about MeeGo on the N900. It's going to be a lacking experience since it's not going to be a one-for-one upgrade. If it is, news to me. If it isn't... I'm right.
That entirely depends on your definition of "one-for-one". Remember, most things on the N900 are third party. As long as MeeGo provides us a working, functioning, user interface with some basic utilities such as a launcher and a way to add applications via a manager - everything else comes in the form of a third-party software release.

Again.. exactly like any other Linux distribution.

So? Nokia is bigger than Ubuntu. Userbase is important, but shouldn't their ability to support people that just got the device - India, Hong Kong for instance - should be paramount.
But again.. Ubuntu itself I don't believe really supports people (is there an "Ubuntu" phone number where you get 24 hour support for whatever system you're running? If there is, it's news to me.) Their forums are the main form of support; which includes some people that work for Ubuntu/Canonical. Well, again, no different here in a forum that supports users with some people from Nokia and more importantly MeeGo.com with some people from Nokia, and Intel.


Nope. We're treating phones as "real computers" when honestly I can: piece together a computer at my own leisure, upgrade a computer OS at my own leisure without depending on my motherboard/CPU/GPU manufacturer and/or change the OS - barring it won't fit or support the pieces I've put into my computer. Just because a phone has computer-like abilities doesn't make it a computer.
Piecing together a Laptop is not easy. Piecing together a phone is not easy (though still possible, albeit the parts are going to be much harder to find and significantly more expensive). Upgrading the OS is already obviously possible on the N900 - MeeGo is installable. Now, we could argue semantics on whether MeeGo is actually an "upgrade" in it's current state.. but I hope you at least see the point here. We could also throw in NitDroid here.

Just because my computer doesn't support the newest printer that just got released, or the latest hardware from a vendor because they don't yet have a Linux driver - doesn't make my computer any less of a computer either.

Just because a man places boobs on his body, it doesn't make him a woman. It just makes him woman-like... sorta.

Ew. Worst analogy ever.
I, for one, think Moobs are awesome!!! (wait.. did I just put that in public? ****..)


Till next time!
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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-09-22 at 03:52.
 

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slender is offline slender
2010-09-22 , 04:04
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#50
hmm. Last time i tried ubuntu it lacked some propietary drivers and applications/plugins and i had to configure additional repository and end up installing Mint.
 

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