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2011-04-12
, 19:24
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#42
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Wrong and wrong.
If he can not see the device on the pc then he has no chance to flash,
Unless he has totally wiped the boot sector of his device but that should not stop the device from being seen on the pc,
If he nuked the kernel, which is very likely based on what he's said, it will fail too boot enough to get it into "flash drive" mode. Windows 7 may simply have found the drivers for it's default mode (flashing) and installed them the first time it connected. It could now be quietly loading the device, and without anything to map, it's not showing signs it's loaded. If it's in flash mode, there may be no visible indicator that the device is connected.
Want proof? Hook up a USB scanner. Nothing visibly happens. Windows loads the drivers, adds it to the list of available devices in device manager, and does what it needs to to alert TWAIN capable programs. But on the desktop, nothing changes, there's no indicator that anything was just plugged in. Same would happen with an N900 in flash mode.
What he needs to do is make sure his battery is charged, load the flashing tools, start the flashing program and get it to the point that it's waiting for the phone to connect. THEN connect the phone, and power it up when holding down the U key. All documented in the wiki on flashing.
Even if he were to have deleted his boot loader, you can even flash that with the factory built in rom, also documented on the wiki.
All this is easily found with a power search for flashing. If you're going to ask for help, please at least try to search for the topic. And if you're going to offer "help" and are not sure about something, educate yourself before you try to help others.
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2011-04-13
, 23:24
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#43
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Originally Posted by woody14619
Cold flashing should have been tried and no i am NOT wrong as it is part of the flashing procedure, if he has not tried to cold flash then yes he has not read the full flashing procedure.
Wrong and wrong.
If he nuked the kernel, which is very likely based on what he's said, it will fail too boot enough to get it into "flash drive" mode. Windows 7 may simply have found the drivers for it's default mode (flashing) and installed them the first time it connected. It could now be quietly loading the device, and without anything to map, it's not showing signs it's loaded. If it's in flash mode, there may be no visible indicator that the device is connected.
Want proof? Hook up a USB scanner. Nothing visibly happens. Windows loads the drivers, adds it to the list of available devices in device manager, and does what it needs to to alert TWAIN capable programs. But on the desktop, nothing changes, there's no indicator that anything was just plugged in. Same would happen with an N900 in flash mode.
What he needs to do is make sure his battery is charged, load the flashing tools, start the flashing program and get it to the point that it's waiting for the phone to connect. THEN connect the phone, and power it up when holding down the U key. All documented in the wiki on flashing.
Even if he were to have deleted his boot loader, you can even flash that with the factory built in rom, also documented on the wiki.
All this is easily found with a power search for flashing. If you're going to ask for help, please at least try to search for the topic. And if you're going to offer "help" and are not sure about something, educate yourself before you try to help others.
When cold flashing procedure is implemented the pc WILL see the device regardless but he has reported on here to have tried that with no success, IF cold flashing does not work then it is looking more like a usb fault that can occur at anytime anywhere.
So before you tell people wrong wrong you also need to read the posts properly as i THINK he has tried the COLD flashing procedure !, not enough information has been posted by the OP mr know it all !.
What should be looked at is the procedure he was going through to make all this happen in the first place because IF whatever he was doing has managed to delete his bootsector to the extent he has to load a temp boot sector to get back to normal then there is a serious flaw in the procedure he was trying to implement in the beggining and should be reported and documented as a serious warning if things go wrong.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-04-13 at 23:37.
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2011-04-14
, 00:32
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#44
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Sorry folks, I know this is already a dead horse... But the bat is right there, and the horse is just so inviting that I can't help myself...
no i am NOT wrong
Yes, you are wrong. Let's recap and point out exactly where you are, shall we?
Originally Posted by abill_uk
That, right there IS WRONG. Even if the device is not seen by the PC (which is probably not what's happening here anyway) you can in fact still reflash the device. That's the exact scenario where the page on cold-flashing is put to use, since in that scenario the PC often does not properly register the device, and drops the connection before it even gets to negotiate enough to load the drivers. Following the instructions there puts the USB controller on the PC side into a special state so the flasher program can handle the USB negotiation and kick the N900 into the proper mode.
If he can not see the device on the pc then he has no chance to flash
While I understand what you meant to say (that his device is not even causing a USB event on the PC), that is NOT the OP's definition of his computer "seeing" the device. This is not an experienced user that's looking at the device manager or event logs for driver loads! It's someone running Windows 7 that screwed up their phone by not reading instructions and warnings, who uninstalled power-kernel incorrectly.
Have you ever worked with Windows 7? Windows 7 can very easily "see" a device at the hardware level and silently load drivers for it, giving no indication to the user that the device has been seen or loaded. So when the OP says "Windows 7 doesn't see the device", what he's really saying is "Windows 7 doesn't present me with a dialog box or some other indicator when I plug in my phone". This is not at all an indicator that the USB port is faulty!
Originally Posted by abill_uk
Because again, it's not a USB fault, which you keep insisting it is. (That's the second "wrong", for those counting along at home.) It's VERY clear, from the op's OWN admission, that he installed the power-kernel, and improperly uninstalled it. That would cause the exact behavior he's seeing, and a simple kernel reflash should fix it, as many people have already said.
this is why in the beggining i said he MAY have a usb fault and the more i read the more i suspect BUT i do not know why if he has tried a fully charged battery from his friends mobile why it does not turn on.
The real problem here is that the OP is apparently unable or unwilling to follow the wiki instructions (and help from people here) and just reflash his kernel. The fact that he has Windows 7 isn't helping... Nor is the fact that you keep saying it's a hardware issue and he can't reflash it because of that.
At this point, he's already posting in other threads that "Nokia is crap" because he's not able to follow the instructions here to fix his device, after not following MeeGo instructions on how to try to install that in the first place. All while ignoring warnings and signs that development repos AND MeeGo could cause this exact problem, and that MeeGo isn't ready for use by non-developers yet.
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2011-04-14
, 01:30
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Posts: 187 |
Thanked: 96 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ London, UK
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#45
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
It is documented, although it doesn't say on the wiki that using HAM to uninstall kernel power will only wipe your kernel, but it says it doesn't work(maybe meant: as expected) I remember reading it long time ago that it would just wipe the kernel not restoring the stock one, unfortunately I couldn't find it now.
What should be looked at is the procedure he was going through to make all this happen in the first place because IF whatever he was doing has managed to delete his bootsector to the extent he has to load a temp boot sector to get back to normal then there is a serious flaw in the procedure he was trying to implement in the beggining and should be reported and documented as a serious warning if things go wrong.
Here is a link to the wiki with instructions how to do it properly:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Deinstallation
As I can recall when you install Enhanced Kernel it gives 2 warning messages: 1. promting you to reboot
2. warning about the uninstall process
I beleve the OP never flashed the N900 before and not sure how to go about it. If things don't go exactly the same way as expected he/she might not know how to proceed. Besides I read that on some win7 OS-es it might get a bit tricky(I don't know/never tried flashing with win7) Being said that I would think that it would be very unlikely that the cause of the problem is the USB, he/she might just need further help.
Edit: Maybe somebody experienced with win7 could guide him through via skype or even vnc.
@Woody: I think you are correct
@Abill_UK: Nothing personal m8
Last edited by fasza2; 2011-04-14 at 01:41.
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2011-04-15
, 07:14
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#46
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I said MAYBE he has the usb fault and i have the same impression you have regarding the OP's inability to understand the full flashing procedure as also he did not seem to respond with explicit details on what went wrong.
This just goes to prove yet again that people who do NOT read the flashing instrucions properly come on here crying for help then realise what they were doing wrong, maybe just maybe the flashing instructions need to be completely re-written for dummies?.
I personally disagree strongly that software should be released to the public on this forum that has the capabilities of not only wiping out boot sectors but also do damage to the OS, i have always said on here nowhere near enough work is done to protect end user from simple but very dangerous applications released by the members on here and allowed on the download section for use to everyone dummie or experianced.
MeeGo should be hidden completely from inexperianced users simply by having an "allowed" list of developers that have access to the downloads.
It is now very obvious to everyone on here the amount of damage and the noise created by inexperiance and the ability to read and understand guidelines written on here.
The N900 is NOT a device for inexperianced and should have been kept purely for training and progression by experianced programmers, no way should it have been sold to the general public as it is not in any way as simple as say an Atari or a Commodore of the past that could be exploited by almost everyone wanting to learn programming.
Nokia made the biggest ballsup in history releasing this N900 for more than one reason !.
I thanked both the previous posts regardless if i am right or wrong because they talk common sense and people should read carefully and take heed for future programming by a novice.
This just goes to prove yet again that people who do NOT read the flashing instrucions properly come on here crying for help then realise what they were doing wrong, maybe just maybe the flashing instructions need to be completely re-written for dummies?.
I personally disagree strongly that software should be released to the public on this forum that has the capabilities of not only wiping out boot sectors but also do damage to the OS, i have always said on here nowhere near enough work is done to protect end user from simple but very dangerous applications released by the members on here and allowed on the download section for use to everyone dummie or experianced.
MeeGo should be hidden completely from inexperianced users simply by having an "allowed" list of developers that have access to the downloads.
It is now very obvious to everyone on here the amount of damage and the noise created by inexperiance and the ability to read and understand guidelines written on here.
The N900 is NOT a device for inexperianced and should have been kept purely for training and progression by experianced programmers, no way should it have been sold to the general public as it is not in any way as simple as say an Atari or a Commodore of the past that could be exploited by almost everyone wanting to learn programming.
Nokia made the biggest ballsup in history releasing this N900 for more than one reason !.
I thanked both the previous posts regardless if i am right or wrong because they talk common sense and people should read carefully and take heed for future programming by a novice.
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2011-04-15
, 07:50
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Posts: 724 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Cambridge, UK
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#47
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MeeGo is an open project and does not require any validation. That is an awful idea. And MeeGo isn't even the problem here. The only relation MeeGo has, is that he was downloading a meego image from the internet when his battery failed. He'd gotten no where near installing it from what I can see..
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2011-04-15
, 08:14
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Posts: 356 |
Thanked: 217 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
@ Netherlands
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#48
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This is a very amusing tread.
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2011-04-15
, 08:28
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Posts: 1,918 |
Thanked: 3,118 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ My pants
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#49
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I don't think he is plugging it with Maemo Flasher opened. He is just saying that "when I plug it in, I don't see nothing for abt 2mins."
Did you follow tele's instructions? Did you install Maemo flasher? What architecture is your Windows 7 build based on, 64bit or 86 (32)bit?
Did you follow tele's instructions? Did you install Maemo flasher? What architecture is your Windows 7 build based on, 64bit or 86 (32)bit?
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[NITDroid] [My Qtlockscreen Skins] [QBW HTC Sense on Your N900!] [CPU Power Control] [Debian Packaging] [Build Me!]
Youtube Channel - Subscribe!
Retired Dev - Thanks for all the fish!
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2011-04-18
, 19:55
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Posts: 1,455 |
Thanked: 3,309 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Rochester, NY
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#50
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
This has little to nothing to do with "flashing instructions". The Op has never attempted to flash his device from what I've read. Until people started mentioning it he wasn't even aware flashing was an option. The failure happened when he uninstalled power-kernel, after ignoring warnings about how to properly do so, both here, on the wiki, and as a pop-up warning when installing power-kernel on the device.
This just goes to prove yet again that people who do NOT read the flashing instrucions
Originally Posted by abill_uk
I suppose you'd like a license, or papers... And maybe we could ban pointy objects, and forks while we're at it?
I personally disagree strongly that software should be released to the public on this forum that has the capabilities of not only wiping out boot sectors but also do damage to the OS
This is not an iPhone, where you're protected from everything, including yourself. There are blatantly clear warnings on the developer repository that any software from there could cause your device to be completely useless. There's another warning (as a pop-up) when installing the repository. Plus, you have to check a box when installing anything from the repositories (in HAM) that says you've read the statement just above it saying what you're installing is from a non-Nokia source and could damage your device.
Sorry, but if you blow past 2 signs and through 3 successive striped wooden barricades on a closed road, and go plummeting into a ravine, it's not the fault of the state, or the barricade manufacturer, or the vehicle manufacturer! It's your own fault for driving like an idiot, ignoring posted signs, and blowing through barricades. It's called personal responsibility, which is notably lacking these days.
Originally Posted by abill_uk
And nothing sharp should ever be sold to the public, nor should anything that anyone anywhere may have a reaction to? Cutlery stores should be closed down, and anything not pre-approved by a panel of well meaning and educated experts should be banned and destroyed. Where are you going with this?
The N900 is NOT a device for inexperianced and should have been kept purely for training and progression by experianced programmers, no way should it have been sold to the general public
The majority of these devices were sold to programing types. There was a high level of entry to get it money wise, as very few carriers subsidized it. And with the exception of one or two very small markets, it wasn't even advertised or marketed. This was not put out as a generic phone for the masses like the iPhone. Even it if was, seeking out this forum and the repositories attached to it is an extra step that most iPhone-like users wouldn't be able (or bothered) to do.
How would one "qualify" to get this device in your world? Would they have to show a degree of some type, or apply for a license? Maybe run a tech blog?
Nokia: "Before I allow you to buy this phone, good citizen, I must see your papers, and you must meet my requirements or not be allowed to purchase it. What's this? You didn't read the directions before plugging in your VCR in the 80s! NO PHONE FOR YOU!"
What country do you live in again? Is the UK really that much of a nanny state? Yikes. And here I though V for Vendetta was a fictional work...
Last edited by fasza2; 2011-04-10 at 00:22.