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Stskeeps |
2015-11-20
, 21:07
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#41
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Originally Posted by Zeta
Maybe, maybe not. Currently reflecting on the past.
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2015-11-20
, 21:21
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#42
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Originally Posted by szopin
Yeah, maybe I should try one of those at some point.
Thanks, but galaxies have fullHD and some even 4k screens, some with hdmi ports, so the dream of plug tv and mouse/kb should be already here, what's up with that?
I guess I should admit that at some point between the N9 and the early Jolla days I gave up on the "phone as mobile computer" thing and eventually bought a MS Surface (the x86 unlocked one) which runs Gentoo quite well.
Half of the reason is that I was completely tired of having to rebuild everything on the phone. Not only different architecture, but different distro, different packaging system, different API versions, ...
With an x86 laptop, I just run the same kernel and user space I run on the rest of my computers. The amount of time saved is a godsend. You still cannot do this on ARM because, I guess, everyone is an idiot and they are very happy with the status quo.
In addition, physical pooooooooooooorts.
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2015-11-20
, 21:22
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#43
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Originally Posted by javispedro
Sadly this would work with jolla tablet too in worst case scenario (assuming with store down enabling developer mode still works, on phone it needs to call home to some repos to download fingerterm etc, one should still be able to install fingerterm rpm manually and modify access rights I hope)
Yeah, maybe I should try one of those at some point.
I guess I should admit that at some point between the N9 and the early Jolla days I gave up on the "phone as mobile computer" thing and eventually bought a MS Surface (the x86 unlocked one) which runs Gentoo quite well.
Half of the reason is that I was completely tired of having to rebuild everything on the phone. Not only different architecture, but different distro, different packaging system, different API versions, ...
With an x86 laptop, I just run the same kernel and user space I run on the rest of my computers. The amount of time saved is a godsend.
In addition, physical pooooooooooooorts.
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2015-11-20
, 21:29
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#44
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Originally Posted by szopin
Still has a different distro, packaging system, etc. and most probably I wouldn't be able to use the same kernel and user space I use on my other computers (binary blobs, gfx, etc.).
Sadly this would work with jolla tablet too in worst case scenario (assuming with store down enabling developer mode still works, on phone it needs to call home to some repos to download fingerterm etc)
It's one of the reasons I still prefer if ... Sailfish Tablet was something I could install on top of Gentoo or any other normal Linux distribution.
I'm aware of the many reasons this is not feasible. It's just a wish.
I still remember the GPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPE days and how I basically used the "in-device" GPE calendar itself on my desktop after being annoyed by non-existent sync support...
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2015-11-20
, 21:31
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#45
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Originally Posted by javispedro
You can always install win10 on it, don't fret
Still has a different distro, packaging system, etc. and most probably I wouldn't be able to use the same kernel and user space I use on my other computers (binary blobs, gfx, etc.).
It's one of the reasons I still prefer if ... Sailfish Tablet was something I could install on top of Gentoo or any other normal Linux distribution.
I'm aware of the many reasons this is not feasible. It's just a wish.
I still remember the GPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPE days and how I basically used the "in-device" GPE calendar itself on my desktop after being annoyed by non-existent sync support...
SailSurface 2.0 (or not? it's x86 so should be possible, right? then VM into gentoo image and voila)
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2015-11-20
, 21:52
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#46
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I think disruption could only occur through a revolutionary form factor or revolutionary functionality. The most likely avenue to chase in this area is the Internet Of Things; controlling and talking to things around you. But even that is getting fairly saturated.
In my fictional world, people didn't try to rewrite X Server with Wayland and Mir and SurfaceFlinger, they optimised X and compiz and made it modular, so it maintained all of it's cross-platform, cross-network robustness, but also became incredibly fast and beautiful, able to scale from smartwatch displays to vast walls of connected display grids.
And nobody made a Linux kernel fork (Android, grrrr) that fragmented the hardware market for 8 years (so far).
In my fictional world, people didn't try to rewrite X Server with Wayland and Mir and SurfaceFlinger, they optimised X and compiz and made it modular, so it maintained all of it's cross-platform, cross-network robustness, but also became incredibly fast and beautiful, able to scale from smartwatch displays to vast walls of connected display grids.
And nobody made a Linux kernel fork (Android, grrrr) that fragmented the hardware market for 8 years (so far).
__________________
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qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
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2015-11-20
, 22:00
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Posts: 80 |
Thanked: 59 times |
Joined on Aug 2012
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#47
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Originally Posted by gerbick
No sense in commenting above.
What does this even mean? Even Apple has faltered in recent (enough) history. This is perhaps as inflammatory of a response as I'd ever expect from a scorned lover. Simply stated, it could have gone unsaid because it matters none.
Originally Posted by gerbick
What you are writing is not true - you can buy Tizen smartwatches in USA and Europe. Regarding the smartphones (probably that's what you had on mind) - Samsung Z3 will be launched in 11 European countries (btw. Russia is also in Europe if you haven't noticed yet).
Too bad Tizen has seen a limited release (India, China and Russia so far)
Originally Posted by gerbick
Ubuntu Touch is not a failure, it steadily develops, step by step and devices in 2016 will have the long awaited convergence. They don't have financial troubles or employeers leaving en masse.
and Ubuntu Touch is seen as a hard failure not even delivering an user experience that's consistent with the prior PR and whatever else Shuttleworth has stated.
Originally Posted by gerbick
When it comes to smartphones, first Tizen product - Samsung Z1 was targeted at low-end, it was not meant to compete with top Galaxy models.
And Tizen would be a failure even if compared to just one of the more recent Samsung Galaxy devices.
Originally Posted by gerbick
I'll give you an example of a much smaller team, consisting of 39 people that weren't the "best & brightest former Nokia/Meego employees" and achieved a lot.
So give me an example of a "rockstar" set of 120 or less engineers that's: 1) launched a phone, 2) created a SDK, 3) produced an OS, 4) updated their OS, 5) produced libhybris (used by: Ubuntu Touch, WebOS and others) and 6) got tablets out in the hands of core developers.
Be very specific. I'll wait.
Meet Fairphone:
https://www.fairphone.com/about/
Clear goal, good communications with community, real transparency, humble approach and not having so much funding as Jolla had (read the figures in the Fairphone factsheet PDF).
Result:
60,000 phones sold
How many phones Jolla sold? 25,000-30,000? We don't know because of the so called Jolla "transparency" and "openness".
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2015-11-20
, 22:07
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#48
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Originally Posted by qole
Optimising the mess that is X is just as viable option to me as 'providing OS for all the abandoned HW', if this was a one weekend excercise, sure. Whole Jolla team worked for over a year to stabilise their own Jolla phone. Libhybris as revolutionary as it is, is brought down by the fact chinese manufacturers develop drivers only until it miraculously works for this specific configuration. With open drivers the latter at least would be a possibility (which could happen with tablet?)
I think disruption could only occur through a revolutionary form factor or revolutionary functionality. The most likely avenue to chase in this area is the Internet Of Things; controlling and talking to things around you. But even that is getting fairly saturated.
In my fictional world, people didn't try to rewrite X Server with Wayland and Mir and SurfaceFlinger, they optimised X and compiz and made it modular, so it maintained all of it's cross-platform, cross-network robustness, but also became incredibly fast and beautiful, able to scale from smartwatch displays to vast walls of connected display grids.
And nobody made a Linux kernel fork (Android, grrrr) that fragmented the hardware market for 8 years (so far).
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2015-11-20
, 22:10
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Posts: 6,436 |
Thanked: 12,701 times |
Joined on Nov 2011
@ Ängelholm, Sweden
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#49
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Fairphone is a piece of hardware. Jolla is hardware AND software. Nobody from Fairphone team did following:
Originally Posted by gerbick
2) created a SDK, 3) produced an OS, 4) updated their OS, 5) produced libhybris (used by: Ubuntu Touch, WebOS and others) and 6) got tablets out in the hands of core developers.
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2015-11-20
, 22:28
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Posts: 205 |
Thanked: 389 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#50
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Originally Posted by javispedro
Well I know there are people who do not like libhybris as the manufactures then feel they have no reason to write drivers for glibc and they are closed and we cannot modify or update them. people like this:
I agree there. This entire emphasis on Android, AOSP, even hybris, all look to me "I have a hammer here and everything looks a nail". Everyone can do that, and everyone will do that -- cheap.
Maybe it's not the right tool...
""Things took a wrong turn a while back though. In an effort to create a
stopgap solution, Jolla developer Munk created libhybris, a wrapper
library which allows the usage of android drivers on top of glibc, and
thus on a normal linux installation. I find this hack pretty dangerous,
as it makes all vendors complacent, and it cements the android way of
working and the it makes binary drivers the default. Our biggest open
source hopes for mobile; Sailfish, Firefox-OS and Ubuntu-Phone Mir
readily embraced this way of working." http://www.osnews.com/thread?595445
However what could we realistically do without it? Can the community reverse engineer drivers and write them? Maybe but I haven't seen that completed on my N900 yet so I find it unlikely before the hardware becomes very outdated and people lose interest. Manufacturers won't do it unless there is marketshare and $$ IMHO.
I want open drivers but I am very thankful for Stskeep's work that allows us to have a chance at alternative systems on more hardware, I don't see another way.
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| Tags |
| brainfiction, brainstorming, fiction, jolla or iphone, neigh!, unicorn device |
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