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aegis is offline aegis
2016-06-28 , 18:37
Posts: 702 | Thanked: 2,059 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK
#41
Originally Posted by mscion View Post
Android seems to do multitasking better than it used to. Used to be when Android killed an app, like a document editor, I would lose the changes I made. Now if the same app is killed it looks like the changes are saved. Whether that is due to an improvement in the app or android itself, I can't say for certain.
It might be both. The app gets an onStop() message saying it's being stopped. The app can then decide what it needs to do.

If it doesn't do anything, the OS will still save the state of text in edit fields (for example) in a bundle. When you navigate back to the same instance, those are restored to the view.

Originally Posted by mscion View Post
Regardless, I wish it was me that decided whether the app is killed and not android. I would prefer, if the situation arises that there is no enough free memory to run an app, that the system tell me that I need to close some given set of apps or risk getting them killed. I would also prefer having a better swapping capability, even at the expense of performance, as the phones are pretty fast anyways. Regardless this may be a moot point once the phones have 6 to 8 gb.
IME it's moot with 2GB mostly and I'm not sure of the utility of manually managing resources when the computer can do that for you better most of the time for most of the people.

I think this discussion is clouded by years of Nokia phones with not enough RAM in them be they Symbian, Maemo, Meego or following on, Jolla and Sailfish who seem to have inherited that daft notion that they can squeeze a quart out of a pint pot.
 

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wicket is offline wicket
2016-06-28 , 21:56
Posts: 634 | Thanked: 3,266 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia
#42
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
It is true.

Android first saves state IN RAM. IE. It just leaves an instance of the running app IN RAM. If it then runs out of RAM, it offloads that instance to storage.

Yes, it may use more instructions to restore state than to restore a swapped out process but you are getting the inbuilt protection of not having an app lose all its transient unsaved data.

Anyway, nobody wants their device to be continuously swapping. Nobody would argue that they'd rather have swapping for performance reasons.
The point I was arguing was your claim that the Android method saves battery. I wasn't arguing on the usefulness of saving state.

The Android method has its advantages, I don't dispute that. Regardless of whether the OS is Maemo or Android, when the system runs low on memory, the OOM has to do something and that normally involves copy operations to non-volatile storage. On Maemo or any other regular Linux, there will not be continuous swapping if there is plenty of memory available so I don't really understand your subsequent argument either.

There's a lot of misconception here about Android multitasking. One problem people here have with Android multitasking is that the if an app is not active, it will be sent a SIGSTOP signal unless the app developer has explicitly told it not to. I think that is perfectly reasonable behaviour when you consider Android's target audience. You wouldn't want a misbehaving app to drain the battery.

I just want a device that behaves like a computer. I'm perfectly capable of identifying a misbehaving process and dealing with it.

When I see that modern Android devices have the "feature" displayed in the image below, it tells me that there is something very wrong with the design of the operating system. Then I look at the uptime on my 256MB N900 and I'm reminded that no Android device would ever replace it.

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DebiaN900 - Native Debian on the N900. Deprecated in favour of Maemo Leste.

Maemo Leste for N950 and N9 (currently broken).
Devuan for N950 and N9.

Mobile devices with mainline Linux support - Help needed with documentation.

"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer
 

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reinob is offline reinob
2016-07-01 , 08:24
Posts: 1,808 | Thanked: 4,272 times | Joined on Feb 2011 @ Germany
#43
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
That's a ridiculous analogy. You may as well claim that because Maemo has a terminal built in, it's closer to MS-DOS.
The point is, as long as there's no a single, accepted, definition of what multitasking means, we will be comparing apples to oranges.

Microsoft said Windows 3.1 did multitasling (cooperative). IBM said no, and argued OS/2 did multitasking (pre-emptive). Microsoft then said NT did real multitasking (independent input queues).

In my "book" multitasking also implies that tasks are not frozen randomly. They may be killed (OOM) but not just frozen around without me knowing or noticing it.

(EDIT)
Like wicket says above: "I just want a device that behaves like a computer."
(/EDIT)

In Android the only way to have a task continuously running is by having a persistent notification (AFAIK, maybe there are other ways). This is hacky, unreliable, and just plain wrong (again, in my book).
Last edited by reinob; 2016-07-01 at 13:10. Reason: typo
 

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hardy_magnus is offline hardy_magnus
2016-07-01 , 10:13
Posts: 277 | Thanked: 546 times | Joined on Mar 2013 @ rack city
#44
check this out
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...freeform-mode/
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sorry for my bad english
 

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mscion is offline mscion
2016-07-01 , 16:39
Posts: 1,873 | Thanked: 4,529 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ North Potomac MD
#45
Long and short of it. If I start up an app, I want to be the one in charge of exiting it or keeping it in background. Not android.
Last edited by mscion; 2016-07-01 at 16:53.
 

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juiceme is offline juiceme
2016-07-01 , 19:15
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#46
Originally Posted by hardy_magnus View Post
check this out
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/...freeform-mode/
Heh, "freedom mode", funny they named it that since Google is all the time locking down Android more and more...
 

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immi.shk is offline immi.shk
2016-07-02 , 00:01
Posts: 432 | Thanked: 544 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#47
Android - well i used android for downloads long time back (kitkat) and used apps
for Regular Download - Android Download Manager
for Jdownloader type Downloads - Share Downloader
for Torrents - A-torrent Pro

while Browsing and "None of them Ever Quit"
although i feel there are always some hidden apps that steal your internet-bandwidth(data) in Android.

For Navigation in Android(root) - you can always change the button(bottom three or any other) configration to whatever with Xposed tweak "Gravitybox"

__________________________________

iOs - Right Now i am Using iPhone which is Jailbroken , then applied a Cydia Tweak called Multiplexor>>Aura. Aura lets any app run in background for infinity. and there is no internet-bandwidth(data) theft in ios(mostly)
so ios+Aura=super strong multitasking


Why download from Mobile Device - well its Really Good to save your Electric Bills

P.s - do you know most of iOs jailbroken tweaks are .Deb files. so i feel its definitely possible for Debian Apps to get installed in iOs, just imagine Easy Debian Ported to ios.
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Be the change you want to see in the World - Mahatma Gandhi

[Transform] Easy Debian LXDE to Window Xp, Win7, Win98 Desktop
[Transform] N900 Nitdroid to Cute "iPad Micro-Tablet"
[Transform] N900 Nitdroid to Awesome "HONEYCOMB MICRO-TABLET"
[SOLVED]- N900 Nitdroid WiFi Hotspot(Ad-Hoc WiFi Tether)
[SOLVED]- WiFi[Ad-Hoc] Internet Tethering problem
[INSTALL] Oprea Mobile to PC
LXDE simplified , TMO [Night-Mode]
Last edited by immi.shk; 2016-07-02 at 00:26.
 

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marmistrz is offline marmistrz
2016-07-02 , 11:43
Posts: 3,328 | Thanked: 4,476 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Poland
#48
Originally Posted by imaginaryenemy View Post
I am NOT an Android "fan", but how it handles multitasking really isn't the issue that the "facts" point it to be. There are plenty of other MUCH better reasons to hate Android...
Just wondering, what's even worse to you?

Power management sucks (but Jolla uses Android drivers, Ubuntu uses Android drivers, unavoidable)
Privacy - you could get Replicant.
Java - yep, that's some reason, but can survive with decent spec.
Lack of decent glibc - this is really irritating to a power user, but can chroot (read: workaround avaialable)
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imaginaryenemy is offline imaginaryenemy
2016-07-05 , 23:46
Posts: 649 | Thanked: 762 times | Joined on Mar 2012 @ Ohio
#49
Originally Posted by marmistrz View Post
Just wondering, what's even worse to you?
You know, everything Google. Even though you can block some of Google's peering eyes and wandering fingers, they still sink their teeth into just about everything you do.


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marmistrz is offline marmistrz
2016-07-06 , 06:53
Posts: 3,328 | Thanked: 4,476 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Poland
#50
Neither do I like the way Android is one big Google-playground.

But you can after all use Replicant. I know it's not so fully up-to-date. Or use some Android without Google services.

This is something that could be possibly alleviated by the community (but, let's be frank, won't)
The multitasking is a (bad) design decision
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