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to Nokia N900 by nieldk - 4 days, 5 hrs ago - more...
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2010-01-29
, 22:58
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#532
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
While I appreciate the attempt at being politically correct, and I'm sure your position as an official distmaster has something to do with that... what I took from that was "No."
People should remember this announcement which said:
"This early release comes with an invitation to build variants based on Maemo 5 compatible with existing hardware like the N800 and N810. Maemo SW can't promise commercial quality for such configurations but through maemo.org we are able to collaborate at a community level with technical support, license changes and code."
Our hybris was also that we wanted to start out with a fully open source base instead of cutting corners with closed source things. Also, we went in directions that made us incompatible with Maemo5 for some things as well. So in some ways, in all the organisation build-up and hacking day after day, we forgot to remember about the goal - having a usable OS by the user. In practice, we didn't ask for that much relicensing and those we asked for, we got.
But the invitation still stands, I'd say. If we needed recompiles, I'm sure it would be possible to work it out somehow - especially with the role as distmaster now.
Which is just the subtle point I was trying to make regarding the "openness" of the Maemo Operating System.
I respect and agree that Nokia is more willing to work with their communities than other manufacturers.. and that the environment in the community, apps, and "root" on device is more open than - say - android... the founding structure of Maemo itself is not fully available.
To grab the sources, and build a working, bootable to desktop version of maemo is not possible, in my understanding - correct?
I love Mer and everything it tried to do.. and hope it does frame into something that is needed in the future, either a stop-gap to M6 for the N900, or just a plain open source replacement to M5 or M6.. either is perfectly wonderful..
But unfortunately Mer (to my understanding) cannot be used as an example of openness like the NITDroid can.. they didn't need to work with Google to get a working port (AFAIK).
Anyway.. this particular topic is off-topic for this thread and belongs in the other one I linked to a few posts back.. You just chimed in at a perfect time
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2010-01-29
, 23:00
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Posts: 3,404 |
Thanked: 4,474 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Germany
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#533
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This thread should be clearly marked [FUD] in its title.
It's nothing but fear based on uncertainty and doubt. You will see the facts in maybe end of the year. Until then, enjoy your device. And then, continue enjoying or get the next thing (whether that will be from Nokia is your choice, you don't have to follow any herd).
It's nothing but fear based on uncertainty and doubt. You will see the facts in maybe end of the year. Until then, enjoy your device. And then, continue enjoying or get the next thing (whether that will be from Nokia is your choice, you don't have to follow any herd).
__________________
Tidings - RSS and Podcast aggregator for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/tidings
Cargo Dock - file/cloud manager for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/cargodock
Tidings - RSS and Podcast aggregator for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/tidings
Cargo Dock - file/cloud manager for Jolla - https://github.com/pycage/cargodock
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2010-01-29
, 23:01
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 747 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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#534
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Originally Posted by rewt
I believe that's what I said. My N900 works very well for me. It's not perfect, but it's very good and there's nothing else like it.
So you're fine with receiving no more OS bug fixes/enhancements, except for major issues
Think about this...since the iPad was announced, tech-type guys are moaning about how it should have Apple's full OS-X on it, a 'real' OS, not the limited 'phone' OS-X version. But if it ran Maemo 5, there would be no such complaints, 'cause it would be running a 'real' OS.
So I'm gonna moan an' groan an' throw a hissy fit because my N900 which already has the most powerful mobile OS on the friggin' planet may not get an even more awesome version? Naaa...
__________________
Registered Linux user #266531.
Registered Linux user #266531.
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2010-01-29
, 23:02
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#535
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Originally Posted by slux
Repeat after me: There are no closed source kernel modules on a standard N900 firmware image. Find me one.
Maybe it is so that even forgetting about the kernel modules, you can't even get a basic phone implementation of Maemo that is completely free/open source at the moment. Even in that case I'd say it's not so simple to say "this one is more open than that one" because being able to run a free (minus the kernel modules) version is just one way of looking at it. I agree that it can be considered a fairly important factor though.
Phone parts - Ofono already runs under Mer (see jebba's post). Battery management, well, blob, but Nokia doesn't mind Nokia SW on Nokia devices. If the actual audio works (properly) in phone, not sure yet, but this is something we should work with getting working - at that point it would be comparable to a Freerunner in terms of usefulness
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2010-01-29
, 23:03
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#536
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Originally Posted by slux
Being able to boot to a desktop and perform the most basic function: Make a phone call (I might even make this part optional if we can get a fully bootable desktop). You can do this in android (in my understanding).
Well, arguing about what constitutes or doesn't constitute an "operating environment" or "operating system" is an endless thing as we can easily see from the GNU/Linux vs. Linux controversy for example.
Which other market systems are you talking about btw?
My "about 10" estimate came from the lists compiled by the SFLC folks. Certainly they hadn't catalogued more than 20 even if being generous.
And there is an option in the official android market to "show only free apps"... They may or may not be open source: like Pandora Radio - but they are free to me as an end user... and there are many hundreds.
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2010-01-29
, 23:06
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#537
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Nah, I'm not trying to be politically correct, just explaining my own experience - I work for community, not Nokia, so in those areas I'm still a PITA
While I appreciate the attempt at being politically correct, and I'm sure your position as an official distmaster has something to do with that... what I took from that was "No."
Which is just the subtle point I was trying to make regarding the "openness" of the Maemo Operating System.
To grab the sources, and build a working, bootable to desktop version of maemo is not possible, in my understanding - correct?
. And you're 100% right, this is not possible. In a couple of days, my openness report will go out, so you can isolate exactly why some things are closed. And yes, that Maemo isn't 100% OSS is hurting me daily in Mer. But let's take that in another thread, feel free to fork.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
| The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-01-29
, 23:08
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 344 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Israel
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#538
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Originally Posted by NvyUs
The ifone 2G was a step before the 3G. Apple didn't declare it as a step, but it was obvious that something better will come. Android 1.0 was a step before 2.0 & 2.1 and again, no one declared it as a step.
At Nokia World when presenting the N900 they said it was step 4 of 5.
I've also seen it quoted many times in interviews with nokians since.
If people missed this which I don't know how they could b/c every mobile blog on the net quoted it and still are when writing about n900 then you must of done lack of research about the product before hitting purchase.
A declaration of this kind is meaningless. It's a very vague announcement that allows them to hide behind it and use it the way they want to, and to you to interpret it as the lack of basic operations and functionalities in the device is OK because it's only a step.
Every electronic device these days is a step.
If I'm buying an expensive product, and this product is a milestone, a step, and a complete product that better products will follow it - great.
But if the product is a beta, which is what the n900 feels to me, and I'm actually the one doing the QA on the device for the next device to come, that's not acceptable, although the idea of selling a beta product (in contrary to product with a beta version) is ingenious.
Maybe I haven't done my research properly, but I'm not the only one. If you feel great with your step 4 device - that's cool.
If you don't - let Nokia hear you and know that this is not acceptable by their customers.
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2010-01-29
, 23:13
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Posts: 1,224 |
Thanked: 1,763 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#539
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Can you even charge the battery in N8x0 with open source only?
Our hybris was also that we wanted to start out with a fully open source base instead of cutting corners with closed source things. Also, we went in directions that made us incompatible with Maemo5 for some things as well. So in some ways, in all the organisation build-up and hacking day after day, we forgot to remember about the goal - having a usable OS by the user. In practice, we didn't ask for that much relicensing and those we asked for, we got.
But the invitation still stands, I'd say. If we needed recompiles, I'm sure it would be possible to work it out somehow - especially with my role as distmaster now.
__________________
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
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2010-01-29
, 23:13
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Posts: 79 |
Thanked: 42 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ London
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#540
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If Nokia aren't going to properly support the N900, they're shooting themselves in the foot big time!
Maemo is a late and so far pretty marginal, if potentially very promising, entry in the crowded smartphone OS field. It's too far from being comparable in terms of many features and performance with Nokia's own incumbent S60 platform.
If we, the early adopters get once again taken for a ride, I really don't see who's going to buy the next Maemo device. Nokia will slowly but surely regress to the rank of cheap & cheerful "convenience" phone manufacturer and we all will be running either Android or Apple OS phones in ~18 months' time.
If, on the other hand, Nokia concentrates hard to make the N900 a wotrhy competitor to Android, S60 and the iPhone OS, then there's hope...
Last edited by sxc; 2010-01-30 at 09:43.
Maemo is a late and so far pretty marginal, if potentially very promising, entry in the crowded smartphone OS field. It's too far from being comparable in terms of many features and performance with Nokia's own incumbent S60 platform.
If we, the early adopters get once again taken for a ride, I really don't see who's going to buy the next Maemo device. Nokia will slowly but surely regress to the rank of cheap & cheerful "convenience" phone manufacturer and we all will be running either Android or Apple OS phones in ~18 months' time.
If, on the other hand, Nokia concentrates hard to make the N900 a wotrhy competitor to Android, S60 and the iPhone OS, then there's hope...
Last edited by sxc; 2010-01-30 at 09:43.
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| Tags |
| compatibility, future, harmattan, harmattan is for new $$$, maemo, maemo 6, n900, speculation, upgrade |
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All times are GMT. The time now is 13:35.
Maybe it is so that even forgetting about the kernel modules, you can't even get a basic phone implementation of Maemo that is completely free/open source at the moment. Even in that case I'd say it's not so simple to say "this one is more open than that one" because being able to run a free (minus the kernel modules) version is just one way of looking at it. I agree that it can be considered a fairly important factor though.
Not having a Maemo for an Android device right now that the first phone-capable Maemo device has been out for two months doesn't really mean there will never be one either, it's still a bit early. Which other market systems are you talking about btw?
My "about 10" estimate came from the lists compiled by the SFLC folks. Certainly they hadn't catalogued more than 20 even if being generous.