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benny1967's Avatar
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#51
Originally Posted by Bundyo View Post
You seem to forget that most GTK+ desktop apps are using the latest libs... which are not available for Maemo 4.
IIRC there's a notice somewhere in one of the Maemo development guides that says Maemo 4 is approximately on the level of Debian X (forgot which version), so porting applications from this version of Debian is recommended.

I see no problem with that. There's no need to port more recent versions if porting an older one is more simple and straightforward.

Originally Posted by Bundyo View Post
Sometimes its easier to rewrite an app than to get it running.
Certainly, this is 100% true - not only because of the issue with library versions, but also because of UI issues etc.
But "sometimes" implies that sometimes it's the other way round.
 
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#52
Are you willing to use software from version Debian X (3 years old) which is missing Y features found in the latest versions? Like if a 3-year old Youtube player will work now.
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#53
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
I doubt my position is typical for much of anyone, but my biggest obstacle was the difficulty in establishing an on-device build environment.
This isn't really typical. A typical mobile app developer will cross-compile and package applicaiton on a PC (usually under Windows, usually with MSVS or Eclipse as IDE) and send it to the device for testing. Some may run it on the emulator first.

The main problem with Maemo SDK is that it is Linux-specific, so most of these traditional developers are initially at loss: they are forced to install and learn a new OS. The VMware "solution" is actually adding to complexity, not making things simpler.

The second problem is, of course, Autoconf. Maemo SDK documentation does not make it clear that you can develop without Autoconf and developing with Autoconf is just annoying.

The third problem is Debian packaging. In a traditional SDK, you provide a single text file that tells the SDK which files you are going to include into the package, at what locations, and how you identify the package (i.e. package name, id, etc). In Maemo SDK, you have to create a separate directory for packaging and fiddle with multiple config files to get things right. The documentation is non-existant or misleading, so most work is done by following examples from existing packages.

So, if I were going to speed up application development, I would start by creating a simpler packaging system (or adopting one from something like FreeBSD). Secondly, I would base all SDK examples and tutorials around simpler build process that does not involve Autoconf. Most Maemo applications are specific to the Maemo platform and thus do not really need Autoconf. Thirdly, I would actually invest time and money into creating a traditional SDK running in Windows. Maybe using coLinux as base.

Last edited by fms; 2009-07-01 at 14:19.
 

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benny1967's Avatar
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#54
Originally Posted by Bundyo View Post
Are you willing to use software from version Debian X (3 years old) which is missing Y features found in the latest versions?
Yes. Most of the applications i use on a regular basis on my Gnome desktop changed over the last years - but hardly any of the features I use did. They had UI changes, new gimmicks here and there, old bugs fixed and new bugs added... but basically it's still the same plain old text editor / IRC client / document reader / card game / bitmap editor /... as before.
 
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#55
Blame the packaging tools, not the packaging format. AFAIK a .deb is a plain archive with packed files to untar in /, a description file, and scripts to run after and before installing the packaging. It cannot get much simpler than that.
In fact, the ipkg format used by the Palm Pre is basically a .deb file.

I personally didn't find the debian packaging tools that hard, specially considering a few months ago I did not even know where to start. As long as you don't distance yourself too much from what dh_make generates, of course.
 

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#56
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Yes. Most of the applications i use on a regular basis on my Gnome desktop changed over the last years - but hardly any of the features I use did. They had UI changes, new gimmicks here and there, old bugs fixed and new bugs added... but basically it's still the same plain old text editor / IRC client / document reader / card game / bitmap editor /... as before.
What *you* use is the key.
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benny1967's Avatar
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#57
Originally Posted by Bundyo View Post
What *you* use is the key.
OK, i'm wrong again. point taken. it's better to have no application than an older version that offers at least many of the features you need.
 
Posts: 47 | Thanked: 55 times | Joined on Jan 2006
#58
I would be willing to pay for quality Maemo applications that meet some of my specific needs, and aren't available with open-source. On my linux system I purchased a program to process and manage the raw files from my camera.

Back in the Zaurus day, I did buy some applications. TexMaker @ $50 was a surprisingly good wordprocessor for the Zaurus/Qtopia. I think a good MS Office compatible application would be worth buying for some.

And when I owned a Palm or PocketPC, I purchased some apps too. But I haven't purchased any Maemo apps, because none seem to be available for sale.

I would also support a bounty system to add features to maemo apps that I use.
 

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#59
Originally Posted by mars View Post
I would be willing to pay for quality Maemo applications that meet some of my specific needs, and aren't available with open-source. On my linux system I purchased a program to process and manage the raw files from my camera.
I would also support a bounty system to add features to maemo apps that I use.
I agree, I would pay (perhaps through PayPal) for certain apps and even for new options on existing apps.
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#60
Originally Posted by lardman View Post
But it was pretty simple to get started and had sufficient extensibility to keep people away from the C/C++ stuff unless they were really hardcore/mad
The OPL language also stayed the same (or at least largely the same, with the addition of extra features) for all of the Psion range (i.e. 1984 till 2000-odd, and even now you can download the OPL runtime for Symbian phones).
All true. But I started late, with a Series5 in 1997 and then a couple of 5mx until around 2002 (yes, those were fragile beasts :-).

The thing is, when Psion pulled out of the market and my last screen cable gave up the ghost, all the untold man-hours I'd sunk into coding my own stuff in OPL went down the drain at the same time...

That was a lesson learnt, and I'm not getting burnt again. Since then I've only bought devices with good Python support (hence the Zaurus, then the 770), and done webapps when I could get away with it.

Of course, if the Psion had had a proper Python port with EPOC API bindings, things woulda been different :-)
 
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