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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2011-08-18 , 22:57
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#51
Originally Posted by qole View Post
Perhaps it is off topic
It is. See below for why :-)

and perhaps it is a sensitive area, since I suppose you were the one who made those rules in the first place...
Well, with some feedback. More's always welcome, of course.

but I don't think the arbitrary, non-democratic declaration that I am a Maemo community council member due to a lack of candidates is a particularly compelling reason to "live by the rules of the body [I] volunteered to serve on".
Eh? We're actually seriously going to debate this or are you being as tongue-in-cheek as I am and it's late and I'm missing it?

They're the rules. They're rules. They can be changed in the future by following the process in the rules for changing them.

Unfortunately, we can't change them in June 2008; nor can we change them a couple of months ago for the present. So what did or didn't happen in the "fiat" over 3 years ago is hardly relevant to a discussion of what happens next month. Candidates with time machines who are willing to share will definitely get my vote[1].

Ergo, off-topic. This sub-thread should be moderated to oblivion (or its own little corner with safety scissors and edible glitter ;-))

[1] I could get into Android in the early days of it; think of the power, the glory, the not-dead-platformedness! Muwahahahaha
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lma is offline lma
2011-08-18 , 22:57
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#52
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
Yes, but that does not provide you with information how many N800/N810/N900 (maemo) and N9/N950(meego)) are there.
Why should it? I mean, what would you do with that information in terms of procesing the vote results? And how would you count someone who has all 5, or none of the above?

The interest of N9/N950 group are not the same as for maemo devices.
Let's not make this more about "camps" than it needs to be. At the end of the day people should simply vote for the candidate(s) whose declarations most closely match their interests and goals.
 

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momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-08-18 , 23:00
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#53
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
Community apartheid? Because I've got an N950, my voice now counts for less?

But what about the fact I still regularly use an N810 (and there's another in the house that, until recently, was being used daily); and - sure - I'm now down to "only" one N900. Pfft.

What would you do with such a census? Declare the results of the election invalid if too many "undesirables" voted for the option you didn't want?
No, I did not propose that as a wildcard to nullify the elections.

I did not mean to imply that people having both maemo and meego devices are disloyal to maemo.org

I've wanted to point out that people having exclusively n9/n950 are generally not interested in future of maemo (as Ima has noted in the first reply in this topic).

Besides knowing user base for the future maemo.org is important thing in scaling/down resources and determining future goals.

It would also help redefine future mission goals.
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Last edited by momcilo; 2011-08-18 at 23:11.
 

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qole is offline qole
2011-08-18 , 23:11
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#54
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
We're actually seriously going to debate this or are you being as tongue-in-cheek as I am and it's late and I'm missing it?

They're the rules. They're rules. They can be changed in the future by following the process in the rules for changing them.
Wow, I've always been the biggest fan of "We do it that way because we do it that way" logic. Rules are rules are rules, and you gotta follow them because they're rules, and rules were meant to be followed, so you gotta follow the rules. This kind of logic is certainly more prevalent amongst rule-writers than amongst those expected to be rule-followers. This reasoning is also usually accompanied by the desire to suppress questions like, "Why exactly do we follow these rules?"

Yes, there might be a tongue planted firmly in my cheek, but I'm also a bit serious. I don't want to have another non-vote this time, and I really think there will be no complaints if the no-vote loophole was closed by the same "act of God" that created the rules in the first place.

Wait, what am I saying? There'll always be someone complaining. "Why should we have to vote when we have 5 perfectly good volunteers willing to take Council positions?" or "Hey, you can't just go changing the Rules! They're Rules, you know! There's Rules for changing the Rules, and you're not following the Rules!"
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2011-08-18 , 23:13
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#55
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
There is no chance to negotiate permissions to host binaries etc with Nokia unless we organize into a legal entity.
Is this true, really? Can you point to a source so I can better understand all the information?

If there is anyway to organize maemo community into a legal entity without a vote, please describe it.
Well, the Maemo community (by my definition, "if you think you're in it, you're in it") wouldn't be a legal entity. You're describing a legal entity to "own" the community resources (one or more of Garage, Downloads, Wiki, Bugzilla, Packages & repos, Talk, Planet, auto-builder, ...) and be responsible for paying their bills.

I do not believe this requires a vote. A vote may be useful for someone to know there'll be enough people to pay subscriptions to make it viable without them being responsible for the unpaid invoices. A vote may be useful for surveying people's thoughts.

But if someone wanted to create an NFP, and had the Council's blessing and "enough" people to support it and do the work (having been on NFP committees, it's drudgerous work with minutiae on secretaries, treasurers, invoices, by-laws etc.) they could JFDI.

A vote could persuade a vocal minority that it's a good idea (but why do they need persuading); but it's not going to magic up anybody who's going to be willing to do the work if they're not already willing to.

Some of the things to consider in the UK and US.

An alternative proposal may be:

"Nemein, how far can you reduce the costs of maemo.org to yourself?
  • Can the community assist in roles like webmaster & sysadmin?
  • Are you willing to accept donations/subscriptions via $PAYMENT_MECHANISM to help cover the costs?
  • Are you willing to subsidise any gap as a loss-leader to demonstrate your skills (community engagement, Midgard, hosting, ...)?
  • Are Nokia willing to continue lower-level payments and trademark usage?
  • Are you happy to work with the Council every $X months to review the budget, financial & resourcing situation?
  • Will you be able to give sufficient warning (say $Y months) to the Council in the event of this arrangement needing to change?
  • Will you be able to assist in the orderly migration of services if, and when, they need to be decommissioned from Nemein?


This reduces the workload (by a factor of gazillion) whilst still putting the site, and the community, on a stable footing. We'd still be lacking people to step up and do the work (either in terms of leg work [e.g. stabilisation branches and management on CSSU, sys admin tasks] or "softer" tasks like the Council and Talk moderation), but it solves the funding "crisis" without expecting an unrealistic level of work from volunteers running an NFP.
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2011-08-18 , 23:29
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#56
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
I've wanted to point out that people having exclusively n9/n950 are generally not interested in future of maemo (as Ima has noted in the first reply in this topic).
If someone exclusively has an N9/N950, they may not have sufficient karma/awareness to vote. If they've moved on, they're unlikely to vote in something that you note as them "generallly not [being] interested in".

Significant overvoting/turnout is unlikely to be an issue ;-)

Besides knowing user base for the future maemo.org is important thing in scaling/down resources and determining future goals. It would also help redefine future mission goals.
This is very true. Things like number of downloads from the Diablo & Fremantle repositories - and the trends over time - would be (more?) useful as well.
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momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-08-18 , 23:35
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#57
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
If someone exclusively has an N9/N950, they may not have sufficient karma/awareness to vote. If they've moved on, they're unlikely to vote in something that you note as them "generallly not [being] interested in".
People sell their devices don't they?
Besides, there is enough of irrational people on this forum.

Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
This is very true. Things like number of downloads from the Diablo & Fremantle repositories - and the trends over time - would be (more?) useful as well.
That includes passive people as well, what we need is input from active part of community as well.

Council, can we have update on the present situation please?
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timoph is offline timoph
2011-08-18 , 23:36
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#58
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
This is very true. Things like number of downloads from the Diablo & Fremantle repositories - and the trends over time - would be (more?) useful as well.
and the usage of different autobuilder targets would be useful too if that data is available.
 

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2011-08-18 , 23:41
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#59
If there is a legal entity, can I suggest "Meltemi" as some form of the basis of the name? TIA.
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Last edited by Jaffa; 2011-08-18 at 23:44. Reason: Formatting/grammar
 

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2011-08-18 , 23:43
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#60
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
Besides, there is enough of irrational people on this forum.
Most of the truly irrational people haven't got Garage accounts and haven't link[ed their] talk.maemo.org account with [their] maemo.org profile

That includes passive people as well, what we need is input from active part of community as well.
Downloading apps is an "active" part of the community in my book. But I suspect I'm not quite getting what you mean...
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