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	Karel Jansens	2008-03-26 , 12:20
	Posts: 3,220 \| Thanked: 326 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)	#51

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
So, are you saying we should evaluate software differently just because it is free?

No, but coming out and spewing vitriol and hyperbole all over the place helps nobody, and strikes me as an incredibly immature and rude thing to do. If you have an issue with a free application, put together something constructive, and help it become better—don't lambast them for trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
The OP has gripes with the map management and UI of Maemo Mapper . . .

Which is fine, but being a immature punk and having issues with the UI are two different things.

So? You agree with what he writes, but not how he words it? Have you considered, given the overall content and tone of his post, that he might think he has a reason to word it like that?

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	pixelseventy2	2008-03-26 , 12:27
	Posts: 357 \| Thanked: 115 times \| Joined on Sep 2007 @ Sunny England :)	#52

Mmmm, flame-bait

Originally Posted by directore

having done some programing in the past I know how hard it is for any company to write good software

Translation? "I was a sh1t programmer, and all the other programmers I knew were sh1t, therefore all programmers must be sh1t"?

Writing good software is not difficult, as long as you have a lot of time and talented people. While many, many O/S projects have talented people, not that many have time, because time is seldom cheap. So if you want to start paying for your software, stop complaining.

The "good" third-party apps you mentioned all come from companies with a LOT of money behind them, therefore a lot of time to spend optimising the experience.

I'm sure the the forth-coming itunes iphone store is going to include a load of crap too.

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	GeneralAntilles	2008-03-26 , 12:52
	Posts: 5,478 \| Thanked: 5,222 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL	#53

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

So? You agree with what he writes, but not how he words it?

No, I don't agree with what he wrote. As a longtime user of Maemo Mapper, I like it—a lot.

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

Have you considered, given the overall content and tone of his post, that he might think he has a reason to word it like that?

I don't know why anybody would think they have a reason to word it like that.

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fms	2008-03-26 , 13:00
Posts: 1,418 \| Thanked: 1,541 times \| Joined on Feb 2008	#54

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles

I don't know why anybody would think they have a reason to word it like that.

To make it a good flame bite maybe?

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	Texrat	2008-03-26 , 13:04
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#55

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

First of all, I don't use Maemo Mapper, so I'm not going into a debate about the evaluation of the program (I don't use any GPS software; I like simple maps better), but it didn't take me more than a second to distill the OP's real problems from his "hyperbole" (which, if he used MM and got burned by it, is actually rather understandeable). You OTOH chose to focus on how he said it, rather than what he said; this is not very instrumental at getting a dialogue going. It's also a sign of the times, where people are beginning to think there exists such a right as "not to be offended" (especially if they are or claim to be muslim, but I digress). Your Thomas Jefferson would give them a right ding on the ear for that.

Secondly, you're not defending freeware developers, you're stating the fruits of their labour should be treated differently from commercial developers' software. That's condescending at best, and damaging to the freeware movement at worst. You're in fact saying freeware developers should be treated as the equivalent of the mentally handicapped: Their work may suck, but we musn't say anything harsh, lest they be discouraged of continuing to suck. I'm not treating Microsoft nicely for the crap they churn out, nor will I be nice for the legion of freeware media player "developers" that has apparently chosen the Itablet as their home turf, to name my own pet peeve against freeware developers. BOGDAMMIT! GO DO SOMETHING USEFUL, YOU SLACKERS! IN MY DAY, YOU'D ALL BE SENT TO THE GALLEYS!!

Then there's the matter of the actual price being an argument against criticism (apparently only allowed if it's gentle and kind criticism, given in the form of praise), an argument brought up by several others in the thread (I'm shoving my reply in here, because I'm too lazy to say the same thing to the others, but this is obviously not directed at you, as you didn't say in so many words that the (absense of) price determines the level of criticism): If people are going to judge software by what they paid for it, then these people aren't using that software, they're collecting it. You judge software by what it does and how it does it, and if it doesn't meet that criterium, it's bad software, regardless of what it cost you. In fact, bad freeware might turn out to cost more than good commercial software, if only in the amount of time wasted on forums complaining about bad freeware.

Oops! I forgot: "Hitler!" There, now even Godwin's Law is covered.

<gasp!> <gasp!> I'm off now, just resting for a spell...

Let's get something straight.

I despise zero tolerance and political correctness. I think they are escape routes for the weak-willed, people who lack the fortitude and general ability to exercise any sort of judgment. I also think the "right not to be offended" is highly abused.

That said, I do believe that civility is the better approach in general. I also believe abject ranting is never an appropriate substitute for constructive criticism. You know very well that the former leads to pointless threads of offense/defense volleys and deep entrenchment of stances. It's counterproductive, and in the end a big waste of time. Like this thread has become.

Also, you remain incorrect on another account. I am indeed defending open source developers, and completely without condescension. I think your bias is showing in that misguided assessment...

As to the mitigation factor of freeware, I am still astonished at your position. As pixelseventy touches on above, it's disingenuous to expect the same level of attention and support from an independent, unpaid effort versus that of a commercial enterprise... which is why I have not once in this thread defended any of the latter. Sure, it would be great to judge all software purely on its merits-- but I don't live in a black-and-white world. The one I see is shaded richly, and takes things like context into account. If you prefer to strip away such descriptive elements, that's certainly your prerogative... I just find it highly unrealistic.

And... I'm done with the thread. You grrrls have fun.

Just one more thing... notice how the OP hasn't been back to defend his own position. He's managed to get several of you to do that for him. So I'll give him credit for being a master (flame) baiter...

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Last edited by Texrat; 2008-03-26 at 13:31.

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	iontruo2	2008-03-26 , 13:55
	Posts: 122 \| Thanked: 34 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Eastern Ontario, Canada	#56

I never cease to me amazed at people whose low brow caustic vitriolic self-opinion is postured by them to somehow seem like acceptable normal. Its not.
Raise the bar. Some of us get very tired stooping to read, let alone address such self propelled distemper in some of the posters.
'get a grip', 'take a pill', 'have a reality check', 'give your head a shake', 'take a deep real breath', 'embrace common sense', are but a few 'encouragements that come to mind when I read some of these emotional bla bla flameouts I am seeing. I wish these people would quit rationalizing their skewed angry point of view.

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	iontruo2	2008-03-26 , 14:11
	Posts: 122 \| Thanked: 34 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Eastern Ontario, Canada	#57

Nokia is Not Apple, yet there will always be prodigal users.

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...389#post160389

quoting a new thread:
schmots
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Default Back after a long time
I stopped carrying my n800 when I got an iphone, but the recent delay of supported apps, combined with my works new firewall locks, has pointed me back to my n800.

iontruo2->With all due respect to 'schmotts', this post/thread showcased to me how everything has its 'growing pains' and all 'tools' have their hiccups and shortcomings. People seek and people return. See the tool, use the tool, put the tool down. Emotional 'fulfillment' comes from people, not tools.

...many paths up the same mountain.

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	sondjata	2008-03-26 , 14:29
	Posts: 1,076 \| Thanked: 176 times \| Joined on Mar 2007	#58

Originally Posted by directore

(too verbose, skip)

Maemo Mapper is a total joke as far as map management is concerned, its UI grossly subpar compared to any commercial offering,

Hmm Maemomapper got me over 3,000 miles last summer and that was before screen rotation was added.

Maemomapper v2 is far better in that regard. Given that I don't pay squat for it and I suppose that Gnunite has a paying gig, I'm damn appreciative that I can have that app on my N800 and quite frankly is the only reason I don't own an iPhone or iPod touch.

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	brontide	2008-03-26 , 14:35
	Posts: 868 \| Thanked: 474 times \| Joined on Oct 2007 @ Capital District, NY, USA	#59

I think what gets me most upset is to see the potential of the NIT platform wasted. There is no hardware limitation that prevents the n8x0 from completing 100% of what a palm can do, 90% of what the iPod Touch can do, and more that neither can do. Software is, and has always been, the linchpin holding the unit back.

Nokia wasted a 3 year head start in the market and has been relegated to a tool for geeks and hackers with limited commercial success.

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	cashless	2008-03-26 , 14:39
	Posts: 159 \| Thanked: 21 times \| Joined on Jan 2008 @ Houston, texas	#60

Originally Posted by tso

the maemo download area on the other hand, with its neatly sorted stuff and one click installer arrows...

Not sure if this is meant to be sarcastic or not, but maemo downloads could REALLY be greatly improved. I kinda hate going there because its so disorganized.