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krisse's Avatar
Posts: 1,540 | Thanked: 1,045 times | Joined on Feb 2007
#51
Originally Posted by stelchio View Post
we were promised through ads and various gadget blogs a wonderfull all around gizmo.
Which ads, exactly?

All the ones I saw talked about accessing the internet, which the tablets do pretty well for something that fits in your pocket. None of the ads sold this as a PDA or laptop replacement, however much some people might want it to be one.
 

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#52
We don't get enough of these polarizing threads. I blame GeneralAntilles for intimidating the noobs.
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#53
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
We don't get enough of these polarizing threads. I blame GeneralAntilles for intimidating the noobs.
I blame the deadly combo of ad agencies and lawyers. And the pharmaceuticals that allow that combo to work so effectively. Where do I get some of that kool aid, I'll check the other iThreads to find out.

 
Benson's Avatar
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#54
I've snipped some of your points to squeeze under the post length limit... and still wound up having to break it in two. Too lazy to put them back, though.
Originally Posted by ddalex View Post
I've been an early adopter of NITs, specifically the 770. I've been uber-excited by the incredible possibilities of a Linux computer at my fingertips. And now, two years later, I'm quite disappointed; not only in NITs but in all mobile internet devices.
Two years? You really thought these machines would be awesome consumer devices in two years from introduction? Seriously, laptops didn't become mainstream-capable in two years from introduction; neither did PCs; neither did cellular telephones; nor yet PDAs... Why should these be different? (I'd give you 3 years or so, as there was some phone work (the 7710) preceding the 770 in the same line; but those things didn't go mainstream in 3 years either...) I think this expectation was bound to leave you disappointed.

I expected for the NITs to mature into solid consumer-level devices which allow tweaking if desired, but which would work flawlessly out of box (more-or-less). I could live with an Synaptic-like application manager to allow update and installing of new applications. This hasn't happened, and I still have to do incredible hackups (from a consumer POV) to get the tablet to run apps I want. Broken dependecy, I don't need to see your face again.

I expected a at least decent PIM, calendar and email application with Exchange capabilties that would work in a corporate environment.
<snip>

I expected to have a decent media player and controller, but even the task to have a picture/audio/video that "just works" is too big.
<snip>

For god's sake, I can't even have a half-decent browser that isn't a resource hog and will actually play good flash !
<snip>

And don't even let me start on under-utilized hardware packed in the tablets, for which I actually pay. If you're to be open to community, at least provide 3D and Jazelle specs so that somebody can actually write some drivers and put the hardware to good use.
Well, up till now, they seem rather reasonable criticisms; but what if they can't release the specs on those, for legal reasons? Should they have crippled the tablets with inferior hardware just so it didn't have these pieces in it? Or paid TI extra (and charged more) to develop a OMAP variant with no 3D and Jazelle? (I'm sure TI would have obliged, and shipped the exact same chips, but without testing the 3d & jazelle, while charging extra.) Unless you can point to an equivalent chip in all respects but the unutilized ones, it's not unreasonable to go with that chip anyway. And nothing prevents them from developing (and licensing) the support for these features later; think of it as a free bonus 5% chance of upgrade, not as a 95% chance of failure to upgrade to something never promised...

Oh well, if NITs are something like an experiment to Nokia, let's call the cute little devices COMMUNITY TESTING AND DEVELOPEMENT TABLETS and be done with it. They will not ever be in consumer-level market, so let's see the competition.
You couldn't have known it, I think, at the beginning, but for some time it's been known we're on 3 of 5 steps to mainstream; to say that because it's been 3 years and 3 steps, and we're not there yet, that they will never be ready, seems flat-out ridiculous.

The iPhone (the new released one) seems the closest competitor, but it lacks openness. It locks your money to Job's wallet with a chain. True, a gold-plated chain, but a chain. And there is that horrible platform with impossible approach if you want to be able to tweak and develop on it. Not free, not good.

The EeePC and the like are closer to something working out for me. But they use the incredible power-hungry x86 architecture (a problem which isn't so bad given the latest Intel Atom and VIA Nano processors), and they are big. Too big to comfortably slide in a pocket when storming out the door for the day's trip. And the EeePC's out of the box system is all but useless: you have to go through other system install, sweat blood and sacrifice a virgin goat to get everything working.
Well, the competition is also about three years in; the iPhone moves up from the phone segment, and the Eee down from the notebook, but they're both spotting the same general market region that Nokia started going for with the 7710. They've not had much time, so they're not really awesome either; and the whole segment is just plain sparse. There are people who would kill for an iPhone the size of the Eee's display (what would they call it, an iNewton?), but there's nothing close. With more experience from the handful of players here now, and with more competition, we'll wind up with a complete spectrum of offerings, and they'll be better than what we've got now even at the same points. Just give it some time...

To be truefull to myself, I think I had more joy and better user experience with my old Palm m105 than with any new modern handheld device. I want that back, but with network, wireless and browsing capabilties !
You'll get it; remember that Apple had Newtons out since '93, and the direct ancestors of that m105 go back to the Pilot 1000, from '96; in 5 years, there'll be mobile internet/computer devices that will compare quite well to that.
 

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#55
So what I want/need from a mobile computing device:
- small form factor with touchscreen. Smaller than 770, bigger than iPhone, with big resolution, and software that understands that it runs on high DPI/big resolution / tiny physical screen;
- well-designed and stable consumer-level experience; the designed should focus on how one interacts with a handheld device, not how to cut pixels to fit a desktop environment on a handheld device.
- standard mainstream distro, even if not for x86 architecture. Ubuntu mobile seems a step in the right direction. Hildon and propietary extensions seem like an overreach, which bogs down porting programs that actually run well on a somewhat mainstream-ish and standardized interface like GTK.
You know Ubuntu mobile is not Ubuntu, hence not a "standard mainstream distro", and uses Hildon, right? This can't coexist with the previous point in any meaningful way, until there's more devices on the market for some tablet-specific distro to become standard and mainstream.
- centralized-database application management. Putting apps on a such device shouldn't be a pain. Maemo.org is a good step, but someone should dedicate lot of time to maintain clean central application database, including the binaries of well-tested programs. If you want bleeding edge, you should be able to do it, but a central database with all the programs that "just works, no tweaks needed" is much desired.
- make use of all hardware facilities you can. On a small device, you have to put to use even the smallest register and not skip a cycle . Don't let 3D acceleration capabilities or Java hardware processor go unutilized. Also, the least thing you can do is beef up the RAM. It doesn't eat lots of power, is quite cheap these days, and you cannot ever have too much of it.
- working peripherals, be it bluetooth, infrared (I know it's old fashioned, but I could use m105 as extra-fancied remote, I want that back ! ), USB (Think of all you could do with a proper USB host port),
Well, the N8x0 have a proper USB host port; we can do all those things....
GPS, TV-Out/Monitor port. I want to be able to play a game using wiimotes connected to NIT with output on that big TV screen. If you add the 3D acceleration and the big memory, you end up killing not only DS and PSP off the market, you actually can go for the Wii !. All in a device that I can unplug and carry on to play/work during commute.
Well, I hope you saw the noBounds video, right? That's going to be killer on the N900 (step 4/5); you're on the money with what needs to happen, but Nokia's working on it already.
- if you pack extra RAM, and dynamic CPU frequency management, together with a mainstream distro, you get solved lots of problems from the start on the office front: OpenOffice and Evolution at your fingertips. Now I could read work emails and type half-assessed PowerPoint (bleah) presentations on the go !
It's unimaginable that the N900 won't have at least twice the RAM; I'd guess 4x; we've already got dynamic CPU frequency, to a max of 400 MHZ; OOo is still slow... But the N900 will get around double the maximum performance, so yes, that'll work. But remember, OOo will violate the "should focus on how one interacts with a handheld device, not how to cut pixels to fit a desktop environment on a handheld device."; that's always a tradeoff, and OOo won't (IMHO) be possible to convert to a nice hand-held app. Still, once the performance is there, I'm sure it'll be available for all who want it, regardless of the OS.
- Mainstream webbrowser (Firefox) with working Flash. I can't stress out how important this is. Having the Firefox addons available for install really changes the experience of the internet for me. Flash is a must have in the new RIA world. AIR is a must too. By know, you should know that I really fancy Adobe, and I think they will change the face of the internet as we know it (just take a look at Adobe labs website!). I understand that Nokia or anyone else beside Adobe doesn't have a say in here, so I'm looking at you, big A.
Mainstream webbrowser, and mainstream extensions, again, aren't tablet-friendly; but they'll be options for those who want them. IMHO, Java is more important than better Flash; we've got good enough flash to get through most sites that require it for navigation, now let's get what the real apps get written in! (By now, you should know I really fancy Java; I support Flash support as a necessity to get around some sites, but feel Java's useful in its own right.) But by all means, if Adobe wants to trounce Java, they should get in the fight on all platforms.

Sorry for the long rant, but I expected and wanted a hole different experience from the new Mobile devices, and I'm not getting it. Decade-old handhelds did a far better (even if more limited) job. I want My Experience Back. Maybe Nokia or someone else will hear.
Yeah, and you'll get it back; they've heard, and they're working. Just don't write it off for good, because the best is yet to come.
So this far, my NITs silently wait for better days. I have no current uses for them, apart from light web browsing when the browser doesn't crash. And I wonder, do you ever actually use yours beside for the tweaking which every geek needs to do once in a while ?
Totally; I do use it for that (and I that far more than I should), but it's also essential for my work and studies, when it's not distracting me from them with cool new things to try. I take notes all the time with Xournal, I use it for over 30% of my web browsing, including some when sitting at my desk with a PC in front of me, and I use it always for playing music. It's used for casual calculations, and 90% of IM/VoIP; for navigating in the car, and most everything else... It's got limitations, but none of them really get in my way that much.
Where do you see the tablets going ?
Well, in classic backwards fashion, I spent most of the first 80% of these comments answering your last question... Enjoy!
 

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#56
I'm gonna press the thanks button for sheer length.

/me blinks.
 

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#57
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
We don't get enough of these polarizing threads. I blame GeneralAntilles for intimidating the noobs.
aint skeered
however i kinda agree with benson...and my itt has become my mainstream away from the office communicator device...yes theres room for improvement...however that being said...its pretty gorram handy
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Last edited by joepagiii; 2008-06-10 at 17:32.
 
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#58
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
There's a big leap from "no improvement" to what you're demanding, Karel.

But hey, you stick with your legendary bombastic style. It's what we love about you.
I'm not "demanding" anything, but I cannot say I wasn't expecting this answer.
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#59
I'll throw my 2 cents in... My 770 sucks at most everything I try to do with it.... Ironically web browsing is what it does the worst. It is slow. Doesn't load anything but the most basic of sights... Frequently crashes. This is all with the default setup, straight out of the box. If I buy something I guess I might have to tweak it a bit, but I would expect the Nokia INTERNET Tablet, do at least do a fair job of browsing without tweaks.

Maybe it is just that I have the 770 and not the 800 or 810, but my experience with the 770 has not enticed me to spend more money on another NIT. Don't get me wrong... I WANT to love the NIT. I pick it up and use it for a week or two, then get disgusted and put it away... Then I'll pick it back up and use it some more, and so on and so on. I just can't make myself love it, or even like it for that matter....

CB
 
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#60
Originally Posted by CelticDaddio View Post
It is slow.
Yep, that's what all the reviews of the 770 said, "a bit slow for web browsing." I wanted to buy one; I really did. I had a lovely photo of one hanging above my desk at work, and I gazed upon it longingly, but I knew from researching it that I would be disappointed by its speed.

I'm very happy with my N800.
 
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