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2008-08-29
, 20:50
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#52
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Originally Posted by Texrat
I have to second Texrat here. Last week was the first time I made a long distance trip and did not bring my powerbook as a backup device. I DID make sure to bring my Solio which I used in stead of the charger. but aside from that particular battery concern I have to say it's the first time I went laptop less on a trip in a very long time and it was nice to not have another bag to tote.
You seem to be downplaying the value of that mobility. To many, it is worth the cost. So that if the Nxxx tablet and a given low-cost laptop cost the same (or even less for the laptop), and the laptop has more features and capability, someone will STILL purchase the Nxxx tablet because that mobility factor has value.
Heck, I have and use both. They are not mutually exclusive. There is certainly overlap, but that should not completely preclude ownership of both. The differences are the motivating factor(s) that drive purchase.
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2008-08-29
, 20:57
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#53
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Originally Posted by sondjata
I had my laptop when I was in Virginia a few weeks ago, but for the most part my N810 Wimax was my device of choice. It went into the GPS mount when I got in the rental car and into my pocket when I went out on foot. It found bus stops for me, restaurants, parks, beaches, shopping, etc. I sat on the sand at Chesapeake Beach, MD and made reservations for the Chart House restaurant in Alexandria, VA. The thing was indispensable. I would have never used the laptop in that manner.
I have to second Texrat here. Last week was the first time I made a long distance trip and did not bring my powerbook as a backup device. I DID make sure to bring my Solio which I used in stead of the charger. but aside from that particular battery concern I have to say it's the first time I went laptop less on a trip in a very long time and it was nice to not have another bag to tote.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2008-08-29
, 21:10
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Posts: 861 |
Thanked: 734 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Nomadic
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#54
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About the harsh reality of adding a cellular radio to the IT, you said:
...if you want to sell it in the US there are 6 carrier tests (FCC for GSM, FCC for CDMA, and each of the big four have their own tests in order to put a device on the carrier deck). This is why it takes 2 years MINIUM from first device to sold device for ANY mobile device in the US. Wanna add those tests times the ones for EVERY OTHER CARRIER FOR A DEVICE THAT IS NOT YET AS USER FRIENDLY AS PICKING UP A PHONE AND MAKING A CALL!
...those tests costs $$$ which are passed back to the consumer everytime, no matter if the carrier pays subsidies on the device or not.
...add to that Nokia would have to be a WILLING participant in the cellular infrastructre of all those places that it wants to sell the IT, before its sold at a loss
...add to that that there is NOTHING OPEN SOURCE that carriers willingly want to make exposed and compromise thir business models
...and when is the last time you heard of a mobile phone costing more than $200 that wasn't an iPhone or RAZR or Palm Centro selling like hotcakes? You don't and ALL THOSE PRODUCTS ARE SOLD AT A LOSS TO PROMOTE SERVICES BEHIND THEM.
I'm calming down now...
----
Look, I don't want to berate ANYONE here; but what Nokia is doing is NOT normal for a company of this size and expanse. Its taken me 6 years to see it and I am a mobile analyst. Take my word for it, this is weird and Nokia is making some serious headway in ways that's changing consumer electronics.
Still calming down...
----
To the ITT commnity, apologies for the attitude. I've learned recently that not everyone sees the big picture and the small picture at the same time. I know nothing of what is going on behind Nokia's walls (I could ask but I do not). I rely on my ability to read news and trends to see the patterns and then speak what I see. Frankly, I don't expect to be right, but I do expect that in a community like this we see that the IT is more than about feeding a geek itch, its really about accessibility and connectity. I'm passionate about people for this reason; and this is why I write...
Last edited by ARJWright; 2008-08-29 at 21:14.
Originally Posted by allnameswereout
What you state is true ONLY FOR THE END CONSUMER. You forget that anything with a cellular radio has to pass governmental and carrier tests...
Care to state some of the issues?
You don't have to buy a Nokia phone with data plan. You can, but you don't have to. The same would be true for a NIT.
The chip would run its own closed source firmware while the interface to the chipset/firmware is completely open. Just like a 3G USB stick. Just like openMoko. openMoko I won't buy because 1) stability wise its not for end-users yet... 2) it lacks 3G... 3) again, its another device, and mostly a phone...
...if you want to sell it in the US there are 6 carrier tests (FCC for GSM, FCC for CDMA, and each of the big four have their own tests in order to put a device on the carrier deck). This is why it takes 2 years MINIUM from first device to sold device for ANY mobile device in the US. Wanna add those tests times the ones for EVERY OTHER CARRIER FOR A DEVICE THAT IS NOT YET AS USER FRIENDLY AS PICKING UP A PHONE AND MAKING A CALL!
...those tests costs $$$ which are passed back to the consumer everytime, no matter if the carrier pays subsidies on the device or not.
...add to that Nokia would have to be a WILLING participant in the cellular infrastructre of all those places that it wants to sell the IT, before its sold at a loss
...add to that that there is NOTHING OPEN SOURCE that carriers willingly want to make exposed and compromise thir business models
...and when is the last time you heard of a mobile phone costing more than $200 that wasn't an iPhone or RAZR or Palm Centro selling like hotcakes? You don't and ALL THOSE PRODUCTS ARE SOLD AT A LOSS TO PROMOTE SERVICES BEHIND THEM.
I'm calming down now...
----
Look, I don't want to berate ANYONE here; but what Nokia is doing is NOT normal for a company of this size and expanse. Its taken me 6 years to see it and I am a mobile analyst. Take my word for it, this is weird and Nokia is making some serious headway in ways that's changing consumer electronics.
Still calming down...
----
To the ITT commnity, apologies for the attitude. I've learned recently that not everyone sees the big picture and the small picture at the same time. I know nothing of what is going on behind Nokia's walls (I could ask but I do not). I rely on my ability to read news and trends to see the patterns and then speak what I see. Frankly, I don't expect to be right, but I do expect that in a community like this we see that the IT is more than about feeding a geek itch, its really about accessibility and connectity. I'm passionate about people for this reason; and this is why I write...
Last edited by ARJWright; 2008-08-29 at 21:14.
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2008-08-29
, 21:36
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Posts: 213 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Barbados
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#55
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If they added phone to the next tablet. I would not buy it. Not because I would not want to but because it would become too expensive and data rates in my country are prohibitive so there would be no benefit there for me, although I would be paying extra for the device.
What may make sense is if; as someone else said if they include the sim card slot for those who want it. So that those who don't can ignore it. If data rates come down perhaps I can use GPRS, as that is the only thing available here.
What may make sense is if; as someone else said if they include the sim card slot for those who want it. So that those who don't can ignore it. If data rates come down perhaps I can use GPRS, as that is the only thing available here.
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2008-08-29
, 21:42
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Posts: 213 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Barbados
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#56
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Just saw ARJWright's post. I did not know it was such an issue to get a devic sold with phone capabilty.
I guess perhaps they can leave it as is. In terms of comunications.
I guess perhaps they can leave it as is. In terms of comunications.
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2008-08-29
, 21:43
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Posts: 213 |
Thanked: 27 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Barbados
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#57
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Can you get the data network without the voice network? I'm ignorant in this area so be kind.
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2008-08-30
, 00:10
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Posts: 1,076 |
Thanked: 176 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
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#58
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Originally Posted by ARJWright
About the harsh reality of adding a cellular radio to the IT, you said:
What you state is true ONLY FOR THE END CONSUMER. You forget that anything with a cellular radio has to pass governmental and carrier tests...
...if you want to sell it in the US there are 6 carrier tests (FCC for GSM, FCC for CDMA, and each of the big four have their own tests in order to put a device on the carrier deck). This is why it takes 2 years MINIUM from first device to sold device for ANY mobile device in the US. Wanna add those tests times the ones for EVERY OTHER CARRIER FOR A DEVICE THAT IS NOT YET AS USER FRIENDLY AS PICKING UP A PHONE AND MAKING A CALL!
I doubt that holds for the Chinese phone I purchased last year.
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2008-08-30
, 01:42
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#59
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Originally Posted by dbec10
Yes, data plans 'for laptops' work this way. You can use SIP then though.
Can you get the data network without the voice network? I'm ignorant in this area so be kind.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2008-08-30
, 02:01
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#60
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Originally Posted by ARJWright
First of all, please don't use excessive CAPS LOCK. Its considered rude.
About the harsh reality of adding a cellular radio to the IT, you said:
What you state is true ONLY FOR THE END CONSUMER. You forget that anything with a cellular radio has to pass governmental and carrier tests...
...if you want to sell it in the US there are 6 carrier tests (FCC for GSM, FCC for CDMA, and each of the big four have their own tests in order to put a device on the carrier deck). This is why it takes 2 years MINIUM from first device to sold device for ANY mobile device in the US. Wanna add those tests times the ones for EVERY OTHER CARRIER FOR A DEVICE THAT IS NOT YET AS USER FRIENDLY AS PICKING UP A PHONE AND MAKING A CALL!
...those tests costs $$$ which are passed back to the consumer everytime, no matter if the carrier pays subsidies on the device or not.
...add to that Nokia would have to be a WILLING participant in the cellular infrastructre of all those places that it wants to sell the IT, before its sold at a loss
...add to that that there is NOTHING OPEN SOURCE that carriers willingly want to make exposed and compromise thir business models
...and when is the last time you heard of a mobile phone costing more than $200 that wasn't an iPhone or RAZR or Palm Centro selling like hotcakes? You don't and ALL THOSE PRODUCTS ARE SOLD AT A LOSS TO PROMOTE SERVICES BEHIND THEM.
I'm calming down now...
----
Look, I don't want to berate ANYONE here; but what Nokia is doing is NOT normal for a company of this size and expanse. Its taken me 6 years to see it and I am a mobile analyst. Take my word for it, this is weird and Nokia is making some serious headway in ways that's changing consumer electronics.
Still calming down...
----
To the ITT commnity, apologies for the attitude. I've learned recently that not everyone sees the big picture and the small picture at the same time. I know nothing of what is going on behind Nokia's walls (I could ask but I do not). I rely on my ability to read news and trends to see the patterns and then speak what I see. Frankly, I don't expect to be right, but I do expect that in a community like this we see that the IT is more than about feeding a geek itch, its really about accessibility and connectity. I'm passionate about people for this reason; and this is why I write...
We're not all from the US, you know. Since I'm not influenced by FCC policy I could care less about their procedures. How does this process work elsewhere? Just as complex?
I know smartphones are actually popular here having found their customers in middle class people, and the difference between 'phone' and 'smartphone' is getting smaller and smaller. Nokia smartphones have always been selling like hotcakes. The N-series have been very, very popular. iPhone however has not much market share, maybe a few percent yet you seem to argue the iPhone isn't profitable for Apple? Heh. Well, Nokia has the biggest market share, and I believe the N-series are in general profitable for Nokia.
There is indeed nothing open source about the firmware, but that is clear anyway, and nobody cares, as long as the chipset works. With the N810 GPS this isn't the case, and with iPhone's 3G this isn't the case either. Doesn't mean its impossible.
Nokia's interest however (even though its from 2005Q3) is a very good point, and it makes sense but Nokia is about to dabble into murky waters with 4G (WiMAX). We'll see...
Another good point is that there wouldn't be one NIT anymore because we'd see different 3G chipsets for different regions or even network providers.
Oh, hmmm, in any ase, it seems this whole NIT project has at least the side effect of Symbian becoming open source...
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
And I'm also not saying there was ever a real move to kill the platform. I was not privy to those strategy discussions when they came up. I'm saying it's not uncommon for a novel product to face that situation under certain circumstances. I've seen products (not just Nokia ones) become ironic victims of their own success, so while it's odd it's not a total shock.
EDIT: ha-- just saw Benson's comment. Nice call.
EDIT 2: this is sheer speculation, but I'm betting the N800's polished look misled many purchasers. They were getting a hobbyist device that (IMO) looked like something really slick and sophisticated. The 770 in all its black plastic glory presented no such illusions.
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2008-08-29 at 20:52.