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Posts: 117 | Thanked: 32 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ USA
#51
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Here are two snaps. I didn't rotate them as the built-in pdf reader doesn't support rotation(yet), but the width (and thus letter size) is about right. I have no idea how you judged 3mm high characters on a N810. That would mean (huge) 1cm letters on a US letter sized paper.

You can clearly see the letters fitting between the 1mm lines (the sub/superscripts being less than 0.5mm). Reading this is NOT convenient, more resolution would NOT make it better from a practical standpoint (only more tempting to mess up your eyesight). There is only so much your eyes can resolve.
Yay! DATA!

I'm not used to metric, so my guesstimation is pretty clearly off. Since you got me back on it, I've hunted down a ruler. On the n810, the letters in my situation at full column are approximately 1mm tall, and 0.75mm wide. By way of comparison, the letters on my gnome-terminals are 1.5mm tall by 1mm wide (eee 901). I use the eee 901 on my laptop with good results on a regular basis. I have to hold the n810 closer, but it works (aside from the low-res-induced smudginess). You're right; that'd be sub-mm.

The other part of your post doesn't have data; only assertions. "Reading this is NOT convenient, more resolution would NOT make it better from a practical standpoint (only more tempting to mess up your eyesight). There is only so much your eyes can resolve."

I dunno; we need some numbers here. It works for me: I read books in fbreader at similar (not same) size.
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ysss's Avatar
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#52
I find it amusing that we are being pressed to come up with the data to back up what seems to be common sense to me, while the viewpoint that challenges the common sense doesn't have much to back it up.
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#53
Originally Posted by solarion View Post
The other part of your post doesn't have data; only assertions. "Reading this is NOT convenient, more resolution would NOT make it better from a practical standpoint (only more tempting to mess up your eyesight). There is only so much your eyes can resolve."

I dunno; we need some numbers here. It works for me: I read books in fbreader at similar (not same) size.
I cannot quantify convenience for you, I don't have a 1000 people of various age, gender and eye-conditions at hand Some people have better vision than others, true. I'm not at all convinced, however, that there is a sufficient (%) amount of people out there who would appreciate (=see) the difference in higher resolution for this particular use-case, considering the extra engineering and cost involved.

Also, I'm not kidding about the danger of prolonged short-focusing on your eye (which is a result of holding the device closer to your eyes so you can make out the small but high-res letters). DO ask an ophthalmologist.
 
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#54
Originally Posted by Alex Atkin UK View Post
Naturally, the former will look better but it would be pointless (not to mention insanely expensive) having a 3.5" 1024x600 screen. Sure it would render the font better, but to the human eye it would still look a blur.
Terry Gilliam solved this already back in 1985:


I am so creating a dock like this for my N900

EDIT: typo
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#55
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
This part is irrelevant - you can render any document size on any display, it is 'only' the question of readability. On a 3.5" display you are talking about sub-millimeter sized letters, and if that's acceptable, I'd like to ask for a second opinion from your ophthalmologist Seriously, try it out on a N900 if you can, for example in terminal, you can use *really* small fonts but it's not pleasant at all, especially for prolonged use (like books and publications). And it's not the point of not having enough pixels, stuff simply gets so small you literally have to look at it like a baby, having the device 10cm from your eyes.
And once you hit your mid fortys holding it 10cm from your eyes just reveals a blur. The n900's small screen size is a really show stopper for me. The character size on n8x0 is on the edge of what I can use.

I would love a _tablet_ with a 1024x600 screen that could optionally function as a phone. It should have usb slot(s) designed for a 3g doggle and an optional gps. This would make it easier for Nokia to sell the tablet as it would not need to be certified as a 'phone' and the cell companies could make money by selling the doggles and plans along with IP phone software (I want to be able to recieve a call). In my case the internet functions are _much_ more important than the phone functions. The characters need to be big enough to see without zooming and the screen large enough to avoid most panning. No need for a HW keyboard either.

Last edited by edt; 2009-10-20 at 15:44.
 

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solarion's Avatar
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#56
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
I find it amusing that we are being pressed to come up with the data to back up what seems to be common sense to me, while the viewpoint that challenges the common sense doesn't have much to back it up.
"Common Sense is neither common nor sensical. Much of what passes for common sense is not based on any underlying principle it’s just anecdotes that have worked for the current situation." - Benjamin Franklin

Thus far, I'm the main one providing actual, concrete data. (many thanks to those who are the exception to the rule!) In addition, I'm being told that I either I'm not seeing what I'm seeing, or I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing.

Yeah, I kinda object to that without concrete facts.
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#57
Originally Posted by edt View Post
I would love a _tablet_ with a 1024x600 screen that could optionally function as a phone. It should have usb slot(s) designed for a 3g doggle and an optional gps.
Coincidentally that is the *exact* specification of the Touchbook
 
solarion's Avatar
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#58
Originally Posted by edt View Post
And once you hit your mid fortys holding it 10cm from your eyes just reveals a blur. The n900's small screen size is a really show stopper for me. The character size on n8x0 is on the edge of what I can use.

I would love a _tablet_ with a 1024x600 screen that could optionally function as a phone. It should have usb slot(s) designed for a 3g doggle and an optional gps. This would make it easier for Nokia to sell the tablet as it would not need to be certified as a 'phone' and the cell companies could make money by selling the doggles and plans along with IP phone software (I want to be able to recieve a call). In my case the internet functions are _much_ more important than the phone functions. The characters need to be big enough to see without zooming and the screen large enough to avoid most panning. No need for a HW keyboard either.
They're right; you need to specify a physical size of the screen. Theoretically, you could make a 1024x600 screen out of a lattice of RGB-emitting atoms (Hmm. a trip to the patent office for me? , but 1024*3 atoms is kinda small to be readily visible.

What we're arguing about is whether anyone would notice the difference between 1024x600 and 800x480 on a 4.1" or 3.5" screen (n810 and n900, respectively).

That said, I'd desperately *love* an ARM-based tablet that's either A4 or letter-sized with sufficient res to display a full-page PDF (and interact with it). The n810 *just* works for most of a column, as I discussed above. Screw Microsoft's overpriced Tablet PC; it's like going from desktop->laptop; pay more for less speed, storage ,etc.
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#59
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
I cannot quantify convenience for you, I don't have a 1000 people of various age, gender and eye-conditions at hand Some people have better vision than others, true. I'm not at all convinced, however, that there is a sufficient (%) amount of people out there who would appreciate (=see) the difference in higher resolution for this particular use-case, considering the extra engineering and cost involved.
That's an entirely reasonable point. I don't know how many would notice (let alone be willing to pay, whatever the difference in price is) for the higher-screen. This is what market tests are for, though.

Also, I'm not kidding about the danger of prolonged short-focusing on your eye (which is a result of holding the device closer to your eyes so you can make out the small but high-res letters). DO ask an ophthalmologist.
I've not experienced eye strain to date.
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#60
Originally Posted by solarion View Post
What we're arguing about is whether anyone would notice the difference between 1024x600 and 800x480 on a 4.1" or 3.5" screen (n810 and n900, respectively).
Ok then. Where's the data you provided for that? Saying "i can see PDFs better in eeePC 901" does not prove it because it has a bigger screen (and a lower DPI!).

In fact, I think there's no way to argue this at all. Since it all depends on one's eyesight. What data can one bring, other than his own anecdotes?

EDIT: And, as a nice anecdote, the second sentence I hear most after showing somebody the N810 is "how can you read those small letters?".

Last edited by javispedro; 2009-10-20 at 16:39.
 
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