Active Topics

 


Page 6 of 7 « First 45 6 7
Reply
Thread Tools
attila77 is offline attila77
2011-01-29 , 12:53
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#51
Without going into the speculation what Nokia or Blackberry will do in future products, IMO there is only one reason for adopting Dalvik in any mobile OS - to be able to migrate to Android while keeping the current developer/userbase and their software investment. Why ? Because the moment Android apps/services reliably run on a device and can be bought from the Android Marketplace, there is no reason for any new developer to even think about doing anything native for that particular platform. This is turn means that on the long run you have the same apps/services as your competitors, but you have the monetary/time burden of maintaining a full OS and a compatibility layer IN ADDITION to what every Android vendor does. That's why HTC/Moto/etc do Sense/Blur et al and not take a full OS and put Dalvik on top - it would be an overkill with no benefit.
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to attila77 For This Useful Post:
EzInKy's Avatar
EzInKy is offline EzInKy
2011-02-01 , 08:27
Posts: 52 | Thanked: 45 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#52
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Without going into the speculation what Nokia or Blackberry will do in future products, IMO there is only one reason for adopting Dalvik in any mobile OS - to be able to migrate to Android while keeping the current developer/userbase and their software investment.
Even after 14 years of using Linux as my primary OS, I keep WINE around for those occasional apps I am forced to use that have no open source equivalent. Presently that is only IE for one particular work related task, all my other needs have been met eventually by a suitable FOSS solution. My point is this is a two way street, and giving users the ability to run necessary software on a foreign system eases migration.
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2011-02-01 , 14:24
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#53
Originally Posted by EzInKy View Post
Even after 14 years of using Linux as my primary OS, I keep WINE around for those occasional apps I am forced to use that have no open source equivalent. Presently that is only IE for one particular work related task, all my other needs have been met eventually by a suitable FOSS solution. My point is this is a two way street, and giving users the ability to run necessary software on a foreign system eases migration.
WINE is a completely different story. It's (very) far from being a reliable solution for end users, Linux itself does a decent pre-filtering of tech-savvy people, it does not try to integrate with packaging and, last but not least, it is not advertised as a feature for major Linux distros. OS/2 is one example that showed that you *can* get too good in emulating windows. Very few people bothered to write OS/2 specific apps as users could run the DOS or windows version anyway. And then when windows introduced APIs OS/2 couldn't match around Win95, it was game over, as there was no serious native app-base to fall back to.
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to attila77 For This Useful Post:
javispedro's Avatar
javispedro is offline javispedro
2011-02-01 , 14:55
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#54
Dalvik is not Android... if you're saying "go dalvik" because you want to run Android applications you're going to be severely disappointed (much in the same way you'd be if you used Preenv to try to run Mojo apps)

And as for the "other" use of Dalvik under other OSs... To be honest I'd be surprised very much if anyone wanted to use Dalvik as a serious development platform. The only reason I could see for that to happen is for legal/licensing reasons, but from a technical PoV Dalvik is far from spectacular...
Last edited by javispedro; 2011-02-01 at 15:03. Reason: fixing wrong choice of words
 
EzInKy's Avatar
EzInKy is offline EzInKy
2011-02-01 , 16:56
Posts: 52 | Thanked: 45 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#55
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
WINE is a completely different story. It's (very) far from being a reliable solution for end users, Linux itself does a decent pre-filtering of tech-savvy people, it does not try to integrate with packaging and, last but not least, it is not advertised as a feature for major Linux distros. OS/2 is one example that showed that you *can* get too good in emulating windows. Very few people bothered to write OS/2 specific apps as users could run the DOS or windows version anyway. And then when windows introduced APIs OS/2 couldn't match around Win95, it was game over, as there was no serious native app-base to fall back to.
I do understand your concern. I'm just trying to see if you'll consider the benefits of compatibility libraries and emulators as well as the drawbacks. I'll also have to disagree with you on Linux based systems being for tech savvy users only. Not only do we have the N900 itself as proof to the contrary, but I have converted a dozen or so family members and friends to using Ubuntu and none have had any more difficulties using it than they did Windows.
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2011-02-01 , 23:10
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#56
Originally Posted by EzInKy View Post
I do understand your concern. I'm just trying to see if you'll consider the benefits of compatibility libraries and emulators as well as the drawbacks.
Certainly. The bottom line is, however, that providing such a feature that is good for Joe Phone out-of-the box is something that can be done only by the vendor. I understand that (if it worked well) users would value it, developers, too, but as said above, for the vendor, it makes no sense because it's poisoning their (native) ecosystem unless they intend to switch to Android anyway.

I'll also have to disagree with you on Linux based systems being for tech savvy users only. Not only do we have the N900 itself as proof to the contrary, but I have converted a dozen or so family members and friends to using Ubuntu and none have had any more difficulties using it than they did Windows.
It's obviously not a black-and-white picture (yes, I did a fair share of missionary work among my relatives/friends, too), and obviously windows is not *only* used by computer neophytes. However, the average savvy-o-meter is, if I would have to guess, tilted to the Linux side (no, I don't have hard numbers or Stanford studies to prove it).
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
 
qole's Avatar
qole is offline qole
2011-02-01 , 23:25
Moderator | Posts: 7,109 | Thanked: 8,820 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada
#57
It appears that ymartin59 continues to work away at this. The latest post is in January 2011. It includes a call for help.
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
 

The Following User Says Thank You to qole For This Useful Post:
qole's Avatar
qole is offline qole
2011-02-08 , 17:21
Moderator | Posts: 7,109 | Thanked: 8,820 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada
#58
It looks like someone's going to offer this commercially:

Myriad Alien Dalvik

I guess it is good news, I just wish someone in the FOSS community had done it first.

(EDIT: pointed to the Talk thread, rather than a blog)
__________________
qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
Last edited by qole; 2011-02-08 at 17:50.
 
ymartin59 is offline ymartin59
2011-02-09 , 08:03
Posts: 106 | Thanked: 136 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Switzerland
#59
Hello,
First, I would like to point that the demo only shows usage of display/mouse and network. OK that is a great first step but "porting" all APIs into a "optimized" VM which is not "Dalvik", as any application should be "converted" ?!?
By the way, a commercial product cannot be "incomplete"/"beta", so many tests are required before... so wait.

I get a contact from a Nokia project leader which is interested in the pure Android Dalvik port to standard Linux platform (glibc, X11), a first step before getting runs on Maemo/MeeGo.

Yes, I ask for help because that is a too large work for an hobbist with a full-time job and family.
Please comment on my blog entry http://ymartin59.free.fr/wordpress/i...et-n900-maemo/
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ymartin59 For This Useful Post:
ArnimS's Avatar
ArnimS is offline ArnimS
2011-02-14 , 17:42
Posts: 1,107 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Germany
#60
If the goal = run android apps on maemo/meego/linux, then i see the following paths

1) Port dalvik VM
- Runs some lightweight android apps, but none that require native libraries

2) Port dalvik + android native libraries
- Runs all apps but requires a ton of work to implement / translate android apis to standard linux ones

3) Actual android in a VM / Qemu
- Less work on translation but unusably slow

4) Actual android compiled as a user-mode kernel + chrooted OS

It seems to me that 4 is the best route - does this make any sense?
__________________
find . -name \*.mp3 -exec mplayer -quiet -shuffle "{}" +
das ist your media player, and yuu vill like it
 
Reply
Page 6 of 7 « First 45 6 7

Tags
flame war, just shoot me

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:32.

Contact Us - Home - Archive - Top