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Capt'n Corrupt is offline Capt'n Corrupt
2010-09-21 , 17:41
Posts: 3,524 | Thanked: 2,958 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Delta Quadrant
#51
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Yes and no.

I think understanding that the computer market has been commoditized and that profits are shrinking because everyone is selling the same thing is a challenge. It is in this environment though that Apple is able to charge so much. A) because they do make nice product and B) because it isn't Windows. That's Nokia's challenge, bring differentiation and quality. We'll see if they can do that.

In the Android market, the reason there is so much fragmentation is because there are so many players. They have to stand out from every other Android vendor. Nokia if they joined Android would undoubtedly have to do the same, so Android or not, there's still plenty of work to be done, though presumably not as much with Android.

The bottom line for me is, I think it would be nice for Nokia to run Android, but I think the mobile market is still young enough that they can take another big player. The market is still developing. Cloud services are still being worked on. It's too early to call game over.

If after MeeGo releases, everything goes south and no one buys one S^3 or MeeGo phone, how long would it take for Nokia to crank out Android phones? For them, probably not very long. I just don't think they're done fighting.
Sorry, I'm not convinced (nor angry, so don't take this post the wrong way). You introduce new points into the argument some of which I agree, but my original point is hard to refute: despite increased competition for a single-OS/multi-device (SOMD) implementation, there are many companies that have taken pole position in the computer/laptop market despite a singular OS with an undifferentiated UI. There is precedent to state that the model 'works' so a claim that implies that it absolutely does not, is insipid at best.

And Apple's recent success is due to many variables, including the PMP, Phone, App store, Media store, etc. Few of which directly compete with the Windows Desktop PC OS.
 

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SAABoy is offline SAABoy
2010-09-21 , 17:41
Posts: 604 | Thanked: 108 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Phoenix, WA
#52
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
And becoming the Wintel of phones from manufacturers point of view, except for the fact that Google sells the ink cartridges on Android.

HTC seems to be taking first steps out of Google's "All your non-harware revenue are belong to us" trap with Google Maps alternative. Will be intersting to see how it goes.
All your hardware are belong to us...

using android is like peeing in your pants...

This thread is freaking hillarious
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-09-21 , 17:49
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#53
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
That might mean very little if you depend on a Nokia image for your Nokia device.
I have to admit, I don't understand that comment...
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daperl's Avatar
daperl is offline daperl
2010-09-21 , 18:01
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#54
@ragnar

It could be as simple as this:

Google wants revenue from an app ecosystem. So, they want to attract developers by trying to control the middle to upper layers of the OS. No one wants an IE 6 fiasco, users or developers. The hardware manufacturers won't see a dime from that app ecosystem as far as I can tell, yet they know that brand loyalty through differentiation helps create larger profit margins [see Apple]. I'm not sure if it's even legal, but Google should give them a piece to create some peace.
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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-09-21 , 18:03
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#55
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
Sorry, I'm not convinced (nor angry, so don't take this post the wrong way). You introduce new points into the argument some of which I agree, but my original point is hard to refute: despite increased competition for a single-OS/multi-device (SOMD) implementation, there are many companies that have taken pole position in the computer/laptop market despite a singular OS with an undifferentiated UI. There is precedent to state that the model 'works' so a claim that implies that it absolutely does not, is insipid at best.

And Apple's recent success is due to many variables, including the PMP, Phone, App store, Media store, etc. Few of which directly compete with the Windows Desktop PC OS.
I understand. I don't see you as angry at all, nor am I. I don't disagree that Nokia could be successful in the Android market. All I'm saying is that it's still early and room for another big player. The market is far from saturated and people are still staking their claim on new territory, though Nokia is incredibly behind, but like I said, if Nokia wanted to enter into the Android market, they can pretty quickly.
 

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Rauha is offline Rauha
2010-09-21 , 18:27
Posts: 1,400 | Thanked: 3,751 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Arctic cold of northern .fi
#56
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
To say that a single-OS/multi-device strategy doesn't work from a profitability standpoint is to ignore the last two decades of Windows computers, and the respective companies producing them that have come to dominate the industry.
He's not saying that it can't be profitaböe, just that the profitability is low. Wintel dominates PC industry, but profit margins for manufacturers are low. Just go look at Dell's margins or what HP makes from consumer PC's without the printer income.

You can allready see similar situation developping for Android manufacturers. LG just reported huge losses for it's phone division and LG's phone chief resigned. Motorola's handsets still make losses and Motorola is only floating because CEO has sold all the crown jewels, last one being the network unit to Nokia Siemens Networks. Sony Ericsson is just barely profitable, HTC has started looking for ways out of Google's service dominance and Samsung has Bada as long term solution.

Edit: I'm not saying that Android isn't good platform from consumer point of view, it is. It also has bright future ahead and there will be manufacturers making devices for it, just like there are manufacturer for putting Intel CPUs and Windows in PCs. It will profitable, but not a goldmine for manufacturers.

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
With this level of 'foresight' it's not surprising he was fired.
Yeah they fired him, then asked him to stay for six months and be the keynote speaker at Nokia's most important event next day.
Last edited by Rauha; 2010-09-21 at 18:32.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2010-09-21 , 18:52
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#57
Originally Posted by daperl View Post
Well, then your analogy fails. I don't remember Dell, Gateway, Acer, ..., etc. rewriting the MS Windows UI.
Actually, I do. Anybody remember Packard Bell and their MS Bob-like UI that kicked in INSTEAD of the Windows GUI? I do.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2010-09-21 , 18:55
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#58
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I have to admit, I don't understand that comment...
I'm suggesting Tivoization of the flash (fiasco, for instance) image or enough binary blobs to make it so that you can't get things fixed or to do what YOU want.
 

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yorg is offline yorg
2010-09-21 , 18:58
Posts: 147 | Thanked: 49 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#59
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
He's not saying that it can't be profitaböe, just that the profitability is low. Wintel dominates PC industry, but profit margins for manufacturers are low. Just go look at Dell's margins or what HP makes from consumer PC's without the printer income.

You can allready see similar situation developping for Android manufacturers. LG just reported huge losses for it's phone division and LG's phone chief resigned. Motorola's handsets still make losses and Motorola is only floating because CEO has sold all the crown jewels, last one being the network unit to Nokia Siemens Networks. Sony Ericsson is just barely profitable, HTC has started looking for ways out of Google's service dominance and Samsung has Bada as long term solution.

Edit: I'm not saying that Android isn't good platform from consumer point of view, it is. It also has bright future ahead and there will be manufacturers making devices for it, just like there are manufacturer for putting Intel CPUs and Windows in PCs. It will profitable, but not a goldmine for manufacturers.
Excuse me, but you can't be suggesting that the loss of profit of LG and Motorola is because of Android and not because of terrible hardware produced. Not to mention that Motorola has managed to actually gain a bit from Android.

Of course everyone wants to have the best product and thus prefer diversity, but it would be stupid not to adopt a technology that has the edge just so you can say "I am different" and then produce something that does 1/10th of what you snubbed.

Google is not stopping samsung from producing Bada, or Nokia from producing Meego. They offer a cross platform alternative. I am still struggling to understand what the hardware manufacturers, and furthermore the consumers can lose in the long term because of it.

I mean does anyone here deny that Nokia didn't try to do the same with Symbian? If not then why is Nokia licensing Symbian for other platforms?
 

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longcat is offline longcat
2010-09-21 , 19:20
Posts: 333 | Thanked: 153 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ blah blah
#60
tag: nokia's balmer - f*cking epic
 
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