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railroadmaster |
2011-01-07
, 03:28
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Posts: 1,082 |
Thanked: 1,235 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
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#51
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Hey Windows seems to be running just fine on ARM in this beta demonstration http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvzJmRBS84w and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmGpoiaqAFo
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2011-01-07
, 05:35
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Posts: 1,789 |
Thanked: 1,699 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
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#52
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Seems like an experimental kernel.
I really wonder how much MS's completed Windows 8 (or whatever they will name it) because it's supposed to be released in late 2012.
If they want everything to be smooth and A-Okay, they have to be pretty far ahead on the development at this time.
I meant it is an enormous task, can they pull it off? at a good quality at the time they proposed?
I really wonder how much MS's completed Windows 8 (or whatever they will name it) because it's supposed to be released in late 2012.
If they want everything to be smooth and A-Okay, they have to be pretty far ahead on the development at this time.
I meant it is an enormous task, can they pull it off? at a good quality at the time they proposed?
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2011-01-07
, 05:50
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Posts: 1,082 |
Thanked: 1,235 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
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#53
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The importance of Windows on is that you won't be stuck with Intel (overpriced), Amd (lacking in marketing and technological areas), and Via (pretty much limited to low power chips). You also won't be stuck with an Architecture that drains power faster than an ant eater in an Ant hill. We also aren't stuck with an Architecture that has been around since 1975. Arm also brings you chips from almost every company in the world so Qualcomm, Texas Instraments, Nvidia, Apple, Samsung, Telechips, Marvell, IBM, Freescale, etc vs only having Intel, Amd, and Via. In my opinion the future of Chip and architecture design is one like the GNU approach where the Architecture and Processor designs are available free to everyone and the community helps contribute to design and develop of the Architecture and then companies can tweak them a little bit (like companies do now), but put more time and money into manufacturing and marketing chips and spend less time on developing them.
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2011-01-07
, 06:00
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Posts: 303 |
Thanked: 146 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#54
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Originally Posted by Kangal
Which part of it looked like an experimental kernel?
Seems like an experimental kernel.
I really wonder how much MS's completed Windows 8 (or whatever they will name it) because it's supposed to be released in late 2012.
If they want everything to be smooth and A-Okay, they have to be pretty far ahead on the development at this time.
I meant it is an enormous task, can they pull it off? at a good quality at the time they proposed?
To me, those demos look pretty cool, and it shows that MS got most of the stuff done. Now they are probably fixing bugs and compatibility issues.
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2011-01-07
, 06:04
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Posts: 303 |
Thanked: 146 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
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#55
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Originally Posted by railroadmaster
While what you say is true, you must keep in mind that being 35 years old is not a bad thing. The architecture is very mature, and companies like Intel and ARM have over 50 years of combined experience in X86 design. Newer cheaps are more powerful and efficient every year. ARM is very immature compared to X86.
The importance of Windows on is that you won't be stuck with Intel (overpriced), Amd (lacking in marketing and technological areas), and Via (pretty much limited to low power chips). You also won't be stuck with an Architecture that drains power faster than an ant eater in an Ant hill. We also aren't stuck with an Architecture that has been around since 1975. Arm also brings you chips from almost every company in the world so Qualcomm, Texas Instraments, Nvidia, Apple, Samsung, Telechips, Marvell, IBM, Freescale, etc vs only having Intel, Amd, and Via. In my opinion the future of Chip and architecture design is one like the GNU approach where the Architecture and Processor designs are available free to everyone and the community helps contribute to design and develop of the Architecture and then companies can tweak them a little bit (like companies do now), but put more time and money into manufacturing and marketing chips and spend less time on developing them.
There is another thing here: An X86 can do in one instruction what an ARM must do in 4-5 instructions. This is why at the same frequency an X86 will always be considerably more powerful.
And there is the backwards compatibility too, a lot of software is no longer maintained, so it can't be recompiled for ARM.
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2011-01-07
, 06:14
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#56
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If anything, the goal of an ARM port of Windows is to avoid being blindsided by Linux (and maybe MacOS) creating a beachhead among mainstream users on cheap netbook/nettop ARM hardware (an ARM netbook running Linux would be noticeably cheaper than a Windows touting Atom). Remember how Linux netbooks were popular and then Microsoft kicked, screamed, dropped license prices and essentially bribed netbook manufacturers to promote Windows on netbooks (remember ASUS recommends Windows7 on eeePC) ?
__________________
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2011-01-07
, 06:23
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#57
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The future is multiarch...
(and competition is good.)
(and competition is good.)
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
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Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
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2011-01-07
, 07:55
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#58
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Originally Posted by attila77
As long you stick to a single CPU vendor and product line, maybe :-) As a data point, my current desktop CPU was launched less than a year ago, and it doesn't do SSSE3 (in fact the Dublin Lenovo is the only box I have around here that can even boot MeeGo/x86).
The point was you don't have successor processors that don't have the extensions the previous ones had. In other words, your mainstream lowest common denominator won't change *in the future*, like it just did for ARMs with the Tegra2.
BTW I'm not sure what the issues with the Tegra2 are, is it just the absence of NEON and VFPv3-D32 or is there more to it?
A funny thing that you mention LPIA - the lesson learned there was that in Intel space, the differences are quite a bit smaller than they would be in ARM.
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2011-01-07
, 08:01
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#59
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Originally Posted by lma
VFPv3-D16 on Tegra2 is the current problem - We didn't realize mfpu=vfpv3 means -d32 until it was too late
BTW I'm not sure what the issues with the Tegra2 are, is it just the absence of NEON and VFPv3-D32 or is there more to it?
The hard floating point port of MeeGo comes with mfloat-abi=hard, mfpu=vfpv3-d16, march=armv7-a mno-thumb (armv7hl) and an ARM sub-architecture (armv7nhl) with mfloat-abi=hard, mfpu=neon, march=armv7-a mno-thumb
MeeGo.com will build towards armv7hl normally, with some packages for NEON.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
| The Following User Says Thank You to Stskeeps For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-01-07
, 08:18
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Posts: 842 |
Thanked: 1,197 times |
Joined on May 2010
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#60
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To me, it looks like this is as previous people said - A way to try to edge into the arm market alongside Linux(MeeGo, Android) and iOS based systems.
The problem I see is that the whole -reason- you use Windows is because of the legacy support.
I mean... To be honest, Ubuntu runs -far- better on any hardware you can throw at it than Windows 7 does. The big disadvantage compared to windows, however, is that your special software(Autodesk and such) and games don't run(or won't run well).
Assuming Microsoft comes up with a compelling ARM offering, they will -have- to implement an emulator to get anywhere, if they intend to call it Windows.
I think that it may be the right move; trying to get people to code for multiple architectures instead of just x86 would be a good goal, but I suspect they will have large problems with it.
For one thing, why would you buy a tablet with Windows when you could use Android(which would be cheaper)?
Yea.
The problem I see is that the whole -reason- you use Windows is because of the legacy support.
I mean... To be honest, Ubuntu runs -far- better on any hardware you can throw at it than Windows 7 does. The big disadvantage compared to windows, however, is that your special software(Autodesk and such) and games don't run(or won't run well).
Assuming Microsoft comes up with a compelling ARM offering, they will -have- to implement an emulator to get anywhere, if they intend to call it Windows.
I think that it may be the right move; trying to get people to code for multiple architectures instead of just x86 would be a good goal, but I suspect they will have large problems with it.
For one thing, why would you buy a tablet with Windows when you could use Android(which would be cheaper)?
Yea.
__________________
My projects: BackupMenu - OS Backup & restore | Video: Flashing your n900(LiveCD)
My devices: N770 + 8GB SD card soldered internally, N900 with 8GB SD card + Custom OC(125-950 typically).
OC freqs: 0:22,90 125:22,90 250:28,180 500:30,360 550:32,400 600:34,430 700:39,430 750:41,430 805:45,430 850:47,500 900:50,500 950:54,500 1000:58,500 1100:67,520 1150:71,520
My projects: BackupMenu - OS Backup & restore | Video: Flashing your n900(LiveCD)
My devices: N770 + 8GB SD card soldered internally, N900 with 8GB SD card + Custom OC(125-950 typically).
OC freqs: 0:22,90 125:22,90 250:28,180 500:30,360 550:32,400 600:34,430 700:39,430 750:41,430 805:45,430 850:47,500 900:50,500 950:54,500 1000:58,500 1100:67,520 1150:71,520
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| die ms die, microfail |
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