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pichlo is offline pichlo
2014-07-16 , 19:50
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#51
The last two posts above:

since Off-Topic subforum doesn't offer thanks. here it goes:
[thanks]<click>

 

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Android_808 is offline Android_808
2014-07-16 , 21:20
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#52
Probably should have clarified first paragraph a bit there. I get that official image distribution, as shipped by nokia is a no go. Does this also mean that we can't distribute our own, stripped out version that is free from adobe-flashplayer etc. be it under the maemo name or freEmantle/OpenMaemo or whatever takes peoples fancy at the time.
 

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Win7Mac is offline Win7Mac
2014-07-16 , 22:06
Community Council | Posts: 664 | Thanked: 1,648 times | Joined on Apr 2012 @ Hamburg
#53
Originally Posted by marmistrz View Post
What about web.archive.org?
No problem since it's not our business what happens there.

Originally Posted by shawnjefferson View Post
Can you share the reason why Nokia has prohibited hosting of images and flasher tools? It's clear we cannot, but the reason is not clear. It might help everyone understand what has been asked for and why it has been denied.
Sorry, they just gave a no and didn't exacly explain why.

Originally Posted by HtheB View Post
How ironic, you're the one that kept spamming us to move the thread to off-topic....?
Exactly my thoughts.

Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
The last two posts above:
since Off-Topic subforum doesn't offer thanks. here it goes:
[thanks]<click>
Which ones are you referring to, the last two posts from joerg_rw that he just deleted or the ones that survived?
At this time, my thanks go to rotoflex and woody14619 of course.

Originally Posted by Android_808 View Post
Does this also mean that we can't distribute our own, stripped out version that is free from adobe-flashplayer etc. be it under the maemo name or freEmantle/OpenMaemo or whatever takes peoples fancy at the time.
As long as all propietary Nokia or 3rd party code is excluded, this should be fine.

Though I'm not part of the MC e.V. board, I was kind of managing its' establishing. I was in good hope that the ongoing offending of HiFo in general and some directors in special would come to a halt (just because jaffa and GeneralAntilles are not as active doesn't nescessarily mean they have a different POV). I was assuming that everybody involved would finally grep that, since Nokia left the house, community cannot simply keep on going as if nothing happened and that it would be common sense that this was a nescessary thing to do.

Differentiating between community and HiFo/MC e.V. is pointless, ignoring reality and counterproductive, some may even call it venom for a community like ours. If it's still unclear: No, one can't go without the other. But the bright side is: it's some of the most active guys on *.m.o that form the board that are present in council too.
We should be very lucky now and support esp. those 2/3 of board that are forming 2/5 of council. No need to offend those guys for simply doing what's nescessary or best for our community.
Only together we can continue.
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pichlo is offline pichlo
2014-07-16 , 23:36
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#54
Originally Posted by Win7Mac View Post
Which ones are you referring to, the last two posts from joerg_rw that he just deleted or the ones that survived?
Right. I should never assume that posts are forever Anyway, I was not aware of any deleted posts, I must have written mine late in the game.

I of course meant posts 49 by Android_808 and 50 by woody14619, particularly the bit about listing images' sizes and checksums. (Do links also stop working when posts get moved/deleted?)

IANAL but what Woody says about the legal issues sounds crystal clear to me. I am also mostly of the "let's do it, worry about problems when they come" kind, but if I ever opened my own business, I would really appreciate a partner who would tap on my shoulder from time to time asking, "have you thought about...?"
 

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shawnjefferson is offline shawnjefferson
2014-07-17 , 04:15
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#55
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
It's been discussed in TMO a few places, mainly threads where people were asking for where to get the images when the documented site went down (tablets-dev.nokia.com). It was discussed in Council meetings as well, and in the general channel on IRC. There has also been ample discussion of it among techstaff, as they were involved in fixing and then disabling the parts of the system that allowed access when Nokia made the legal request. It was even discussed on the official Nokia help board.

I could see where a casual forum reader could have missed most/all of the discussion. But then most also missed that there was an election, despite being bannered, stickied, and discussed for over a month.
The images have been off-line for over 6 months, and were out about as long during initial migration. If that didn't draw the attention of a casual forum reader, I'm not sure how else to do so.
Thanks. I certainly did not miss the discussions of the images being no longer hosted by Nokia, and certainly not that we couldn't host them ourselves, but what I missed was the "why", especially any official comment by HiFo, or even by CC (I don't believe that happened, right?) Of course there were rumors, speculations, FUD, etc... that I heard here and there on TMO and IRC (mainly logs, since I don't hang in IRC much in real-time.)

I think I now understand the issue, and completely support the HiFo actions up to this point. Image hosting is off the table, but trademark use and domain ownership/stewardship is most likely going to happen, which is very good and probably more than some people even thought might be the outcome.

Images will always be available, in the darker regions of the net, for sure, so I am not too worried about that personally (besides, I downloaded the image(s) I would need awhile back.)

On the image issue, it seems to me there is a way forward:

- post a list of image filenames and hashes on the wiki (with no links of course), so that if a person were to find an image on-line somewhere themselves, or after asking in TMO or in IRC, the can verify that the image is genuine. (I believe this list of hashes already exists, so maybe just need to be posted in the wiki.)

- strip out all 3rd party and nokia code from the image, and create a completely FOSS image that we can host.
Last edited by shawnjefferson; 2014-07-17 at 04:26.
 

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rotoflex is offline rotoflex
2014-07-17 , 16:00
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#56
I think that the mods should move the posts about functional solutions to the problems related to unavailable nokia-held components out of Off-Topic.
 

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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2014-07-18 , 04:19
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#57
Originally Posted by Android_808 View Post
Does this also mean that we can't distribute our own, stripped out version that is free from adobe-flashplayer etc. be it under the maemo name or freEmantle/OpenMaemo or whatever takes peoples fancy at the time.
The problem then though is we need to have a solidly trusted and technical person review it to make sure it's clean of such items. Frankly, I'm not sure that can be 100% done while retaining the functionality. I know there are Android & Debian versions out there, but last I knew they also lack drivers for some of the harder bits, like GPS, GSM, and SGX.

I think the answer to that will be, if/when that happens, it would need review. This is also why we need people on Council, Board and Techstaff that are known and trusted entities, especially there must be trust between those on the Board (holding legal liability) and those approving those images.
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Android_808 is offline Android_808
2014-07-18 , 16:08
Posts: 1,203 | Thanked: 3,027 times | Joined on Dec 2010
#58
In all honesty then it may be worth while building it from the ground up to make sure that we don't get something slipped in by accident. Bring in some updated libs as a bonus maybe. As current, shall we say, options are available there is no great rush.

In terms of standard apps; Photos, Contacts, Phone, Conversations and related settings widgets I would probably say are the key features that still need replacements if I remember correctly without looking at list. Maps isn't as much of an issue as we have alternatives (Marble, Modrana). MicroB is another one that needs replacing but without switching everything to updated libraries (qt5) to build a newer version, is it worth it. As a bonus, having updated html5 support would greatly reduce need of flashplayer anyway.

Pali, fmg and co have made great progress lately with regards to drivers. SGX, I found this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/652347 quite interesting. Nemo has license details https://github.com/nemomobile/ti-oma...pm/license.txt and packages exist for ubuntu.

http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubunt...les-sgx-omap3/
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source...00.01-0ubuntu1
 

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