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eson is offline eson
2016-08-19 , 20:01
Posts: 363 | Thanked: 1,377 times | Joined on Nov 2015 @ Sweden
#681
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
The UI does not define the OS.
I know that, I can handle a terminal passably but most people can't and for them, the UI actually do define the OS.

Oh and innovation for innovation's sake is not progress.
I know that to, and I can only refer to my self in this matter. I adopted Sailfish faster than any other phone OS. It took me about one day to start asking why not all OS's work like this. That is progress to me.
Last edited by eson; 2016-08-19 at 20:12.
 

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chenliangchen is offline chenliangchen
2016-08-19 , 20:24
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#682
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Good points but I'll have to kindly disagree. The purpose of any mobile OS that's wanting to be different needs to be at least intuitive. Folks that knew MeeGo/Maemo were having some initial difficulties with Jolla Sailfish in the initial release days. There were folks (some I honestly thought were joking) that were having issues with the gestures and so forth.

Knowing a preceding OS should not be required. I do UX all day; the moment I make the user think, I've started to fail. It should work in a way that the user finds appealing.

Sadly, some folks just fall back into Android or iOS patterns for something they hold in their hands.
I got what you mean. The reason I say knowing about Maemo/MeeGo or Linux not only refers to UX, but on the basic philosophy on a mobile phone.

I assume, folks who knows about Maemo/MeeGo would at least praise the following when reviewing Sailfish OS:

- The device is open to the user. SU access by default, no jainbreaking/root required to mod system.

- Multitasking. The apps are running instead of tombstone.

- No home button or navigation bar needed. A clean front face.

Things like this is not UX related, but those who use major OSes will never know...
 

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gerbick
2016-08-19 , 21:07
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#683
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
I got what you mean. The reason I say knowing about Maemo/MeeGo or Linux not only refers to UX, but on the basic philosophy on a mobile phone.

I assume, folks who knows about Maemo/MeeGo would at least praise the following when reviewing Sailfish OS:

- The device is open to the user. SU access by default, no jainbreaking/root required to mod system.

- Multitasking. The apps are running instead of tombstone.

- No home button or navigation bar needed. A clean front face.

Things like this is not UX related, but those who use major OSes will never know...
You just described a bunch of experiences then said "it's not UX related"... well um...

UX is not UI, which are the pretty ****ing pictures that make up a screen. The UX of terminal based (commandline) OS's require you type it in. That's a user expectation and experience. But even that stance is subjective. But allow me to explain my stance.

To go further, you described the actual experience, ease of use, and expectations that exist in a system that does real multi-tasking, not serial-tasking. It is that there are no buttons (UI) or navigation (UI) to get in the way of the experience of using the applications on the device.

UX is the form, the flow and the way that you interact with what's there and the approach therein... which, should not be based on whatever OS you're using. That's immaterial.

It's how the user gets **** done; if they can and the allowable approaches therein. iOS serial tasks - unless you use their new split-screen that sorta does multi-tasking while killing all of the other apps in the background and allows only two at a time.

Android does the same thing... split-screen and tombstones the rest.

Desktop OS's do windowed multi-tasking, unless you use snap-to (edge, quadrants, etc.). And MeeGo/Sailfish do real multi-tasking where once it's minimized, it may still run if it's programmed to do so.

But that's still part of the experience once it's been programmed to do so.

And as it stands; a mobile OS is not a replacement for a "major OS" quite yet despite how much marketing tells me as such. And above all, what exists in a device should not require prior experience or knowledge. That is what really bothers me; people that all too quickly declare that any opinion is null and void unless they come from a similar background, exposure and expectations in regards to how they want a device, OS or much anything to work.

It's far too myopic and limiting. Much like each and every device that ran Maemo, MeeGo and now... Sailfish.

The world is bigger than the 10% that know a damn thing about Linux - embedded or desktop.

I state all of the above just as part of a discussion; not as a condemnation of your take on what constitutes UX vs. UI. We see things differently and that's fine and I can appreciate your stance as it has a ton of merit. But as I stated earlier; I just have to kindly disagree.

Do not take my statements personal. They were not meant to be taken in that manner.
 

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aegis is offline aegis
2016-08-19 , 21:36
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#684
Originally Posted by nodevel View Post
Sure, it requires a gesture (pulling the photo from the left), but there is a quick visual hint after every shot (the photo slides to the left) and the gesture is the same as on Android this "reviewer" celebrates, so I suppose he is not the brightest
It's not the same on every Android. Sony has custom camera software and on that it takes a picture then you get a stamp sized image of the last image you took to click on. It's obvious but it has to be when swipes aren't part of your ugly UX.
 

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mosen is offline mosen
2016-08-19 , 22:36
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#685
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Yeah, and plz move to the OS thread and stop derailing every single thread.

Got you all
Disagree. This thread is about Turing Phone.
One aspect is new sailfish users and "wannabe mainstream" reviewers washing on our shores, pointing out blind spots if you listen with an open mindset.
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2016-08-19 , 22:40
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#686
Originally Posted by mosen View Post
Disagree. This thread is about Turing Phone.
One aspect is new sailfish users and "wannabe mainstream" reviewers washing on our shores, pointing out blind spots if you listen with an open mindset.
I concur! To me basically Nothing is offtopic. (Since I don't read most of the posts, maybe ) The users takes the thread where they want it. Noone else. So lets continue to compare OSes and see IF we can catch any wannabe mainstream reviewers in our web. Or another Turing owner, maybe. That would be a bad beat jackpot.

Interesting that jolla blog don't say more about Turing.
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Last edited by Dave999; 2016-08-19 at 23:02.
 

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ste-phan is offline ste-phan
2016-08-21 , 11:35
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#687
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
... Folks that knew MeeGo/Maemo were having some initial difficulties with Jolla Sailfish in the initial release days. There were folks (some I honestly thought were joking) that were having issues with the gestures and so forth.

Knowing a preceding OS should not be required. I do UX all day; the moment I make the user think, I've started to fail. It should work in a way that the user finds appealing.

Sadly, some folks just fall back into Android or iOS patterns for something they hold in their hands.
Yes that is so true, after about 3 years of Sailfish usage I still get lost.
It is not that I don't know how it works, it is just that I don't operate the OS on the background in my mind while focusing on my creative process.
And this is way beyond the trouble fake "ok but it is not AndroiOS and no 100k apps" kind of reviews.

Obviously people at Jolla think alike seen the need to implement a version 2 of the UI and the un-skipable tutorial (that obviously does not help to make the experience more intuitive).

Maemo on the N900 and the keyboard-less version on the N9 did need no explanation.
N900 stands out as the device that felt like a relief to get to get to know and use and to return to.
 

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2016-08-21 , 11:37
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#688
Originally Posted by mosen View Post
Disagree. This thread is about Turing Phone.
One aspect is new sailfish users and "wannabe mainstream" reviewers washing on our shores, pointing out blind spots if you listen with an open mindset.
Since this Turing phone is nowhere to be seen, I'd suggest to make it a thread FOR Turing Phone.
 

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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2016-08-21 , 11:57
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#689
Here we go again... OS this, OS that...

I don't think it matters what jolla do with the OS. It will still be irrelevant until until it usable.

OS is irrelevant nowdays. no matter what we all thinks. Time is changing. Its all about services. doesn't matter if you swipe, scroll, swipe, click, hover.

Turing is not judged by its phone or its OS. If it cant use chromecast and cast Netflix the phone is broken.

So maybe jolla should refund users and doing something that users like or doing something else.

They cant live on 500 fanboys, some inverters money without growth which is pretty much zero since its impossible to buy jolla phones in most parts of the world.

Poeple is ready to help, but not via scams...It must result in progress or poeple and investers will checkout.

I'm ready to be supriced, and amazed by the irrelevant comments regarding the OS but Hope we will seen see more about the a actual device and turing adjustments.
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Last edited by Dave999; 2016-08-21 at 12:02.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2016-08-21 , 19:19
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#690
Dave, you are right but remember you are preaching to the crowd to whom the OS is everything. I know because I used to be like that too, until I realized the life is too short to constantly struggle with the OS when all you want to do is some basic thing like resize a photo.
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