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2008-06-09
, 22:28
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Posts: 34 |
Thanked: 16 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#62
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Originally Posted by krisse
Ok, I wasn't seeing what you meant by your initial statement. Point taken.
Well, that's not really purchasing though is it, unless I want to use it as a paperweight.
If I have to pay extra to activate it, then $199 can't possibly be described as a purchase price. All it is is an initial installment, a downpayment.
You're missing the point: this $199 figure everyone's getting so excited about is meaningless, because the total price of the iPhone has barely changed.
Add up all the total costs of the contract and it's pretty much what it was before, they've just chipped a bit off the initial payment.
In fact I'm surprised they didn't go for the $0 deal themselves, now THAT would have made headlines.
What I want to know is how much this costs on its own without a contract. I'm willing to bet it's exactly what the previous model costs.
I think the big deal is that the entry point was way too expensive before. Now with the $199 price and everything coming with it (app store, etc) , it's much more approachable.
It remains to be seen how many people will flock over to AT&T to have this phone
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2008-06-09
, 22:29
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#63
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Originally Posted by stjuste
Are you serious? I mean I don't buy a verizon phone and expect it to just work out the box. It has to be activated through Verizon's network in order to get on.
Are YOU serious? Do you really think phones have to be "activated" before they can work with a phone network?
That's just American phone network operators conning you.
There's absolutely no reason at all why your operator has to have any involvement whatsoever in which phone you buy or use.
It would be like your ISP telling you that your PC has to be "activated", or your electricity company telling you that your toaster has to be "activated". It's just a lie pure and simple.
I'm outside America, and I can put my SIM card in any device I want, and it works straight away. My network operator doesn't know or care what I use, as long as I pay my phone bill they're happy.
I think the big deal is that the entry point was way too expensive before. Now with the $199 price and everything coming with it (app store, etc) , it's much more approachable.
It's just weird how many people are comparing the $199 here with the $400 that a tablet costs on its own without a contract, because they're not really the same kind of price: one is an initial payment, the other is a total payment.
Last edited by krisse; 2008-06-09 at 22:32.
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2008-06-09
, 22:31
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Posts: 34 |
Thanked: 16 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#64
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Originally Posted by johnkzin
Two very valid points, again, you have to understand why Apple is doing this. They have a product called the ipod Touch which is essentially the iphone without the phone more or less. It'd be dumb for them to allow this because what would be the use of the ipod Touch.
That leaves out other sides of things:
1) your verizon phone may not be usable as a phone without service, but I bet it's usable for its PIM features (whichever ones it may or may not have) without service. Why can't I do that with an iPhone 3G?
2) What about someone who wants to buy the iPhone 3G for use as a GoPhone? How much will the iPhone 3G cost in THAT case?
I don't know anything about the GoPhone plans but I assume that allowing this would take away from AT&T and Apples bottom lines...they are still corporations that still need to make money..
Last edited by stjuste; 2008-06-09 at 22:34. Reason: forgot something...
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2008-06-09
, 22:33
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Posts: 34 |
Thanked: 16 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#65
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Originally Posted by krisse
Like I said in my other post, I can only speak for how things are in the U.S. I'm am aware of the lesser restrictions in other countries but as I live in the U.S., I am not able to take advantage.
Are YOU serious? Do you really think phones have to be "activated" before they can work with a phone network?
That's just American phone network operators conning you.
There's absolutely no reason at all why your operator has to have any involvement whatsoever in which phone you buy or use.
It would be like your ISP telling you that your PC has to be "activated", or your electricity company telling you that your toaster has to be "activated". It's just a lie pure and simple.
I'm outside America, and I can put my SIM card in any device I want, my network operator doesn't care at all. As long as I pay my phone bill they're happy.
Fair enough, and this is a more sensible entry price of course, the original was ludcriously high.
It's just weird how many people are comparing the $199 here with the $400 that a tablet costs on its own without a contract, because they're not really the same kind of price: one is an initial payment, the other is a total payment.
When what's available in the U.S. is considered, the iphone is not a bad deal for what you are getting.
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2008-06-09
, 22:36
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#66
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Originally Posted by stjuste
Can I just apologise for the tone in my previous post, I just read it through again and I sounded a bit of an idiot.
Like I said in my other post, I can only speak for how things are in the U.S. I'm am aware of the lesser restrictions in other countries but as I live in the U.S., I am not able to take advantage.
When what's available in the U.S. is considered, the iphone is not a bad deal for what you are getting.
Sorry.
You're absolutely right that this is a deal for the US market and has to be judged in that context.
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2008-06-09
, 22:37
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Posts: 34 |
Thanked: 16 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#67
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Originally Posted by krisse
I think now we are in sync. I agree with this statement and have commented before in the dreaded iphone vs. tablet threads about them being different devices and thus not really comparable.
Are YOU serious? Do you really think phones have to be "activated" before they can work with a phone network?
That's just American phone network operators conning you.
There's absolutely no reason at all why your operator has to have any involvement whatsoever in which phone you buy or use.
It would be like your ISP telling you that your PC has to be "activated", or your electricity company telling you that your toaster has to be "activated". It's just a lie pure and simple.
I'm outside America, and I can put my SIM card in any device I want, and it works straight away. My network operator doesn't know or care what I use, as long as I pay my phone bill they're happy.
Fair enough, and this is a more sensible entry price of course, the original was ludcriously high.
It's just weird how many people are comparing the $199 here with the $400 that a tablet costs on its own without a contract, because they're not really the same kind of price: one is an initial payment, the other is a total payment.
This thread, I thought, was going to be about how this move by apple will affect other companies' strategies. They always morph into tablet vs. iphone though... (I probably unknowingly contribute to that trend)
No worries about the tones. I feel that forums are rather impersonal and difficult to read with correct tone.
Sorry if I came off wrong as well. I'm definitely not trying to argue. Just interested in people's takes on this move by Apple.
Last edited by stjuste; 2008-06-09 at 22:41.
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2008-06-09
, 22:41
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#68
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Originally Posted by stjuste
Well, the interesting thing is that in Europe the tablet and iPhone are more comparable because there's a much bigger market here for buying phones unlocked at full cost.
I think now we are in sync. I agree with this statement and have commented before in the dreaded iphone vs. tablet threads about them being different devices and thus not really comparable.
A lot of Europeans buy phones just like any other gadget, they pay the full price up front without a contract, and then pay less for the actual phone service because they don't have to pay for hardware. It's very much like buying a PC and subscribing to an ISP, two separate purchases.
This is why I'm so interested in finding out what the new iPhone actually costs on its own, especially as other smartphone prices have been dropping over the past year.
Some smartphones really are $199 unlocked and without a contract, so the market is getting very competitive indeed. I wouldn't be surprised to see the entire phone market be made up of smartphones in 5 years time.
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2008-06-09
, 22:44
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Posts: 1,878 |
Thanked: 646 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ San Jose, CA
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#69
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Originally Posted by stjuste
No, actually, I don't.
Two very valid points, again, you have to understand why Apple is doing this.
I just have to recognize what it is they are or aren't doing when I choose where I spend my money. I don't have to care one way nor the other about why they do anything at all. If they aren't doing what I want, then they wont get my money. Period. "Why Apple is doing this" doesn't enter into the equation at all.
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2008-06-09
, 22:46
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Posts: 1,436 |
Thanked: 3,144 times |
Joined on Jul 2005
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#70
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Here's the thing. What is not emphasized here is along with the 2-year contract (which came also with the iPhone 1st gen btw), there is an increase of $10 on the data plan -- from $20 to $30/month on top of your voice plan.
But then again, let's not forget how apple has made the iPhone so user friendly. As an end-user who don't know anything about the iPhone, you just know that if you want to purchase music, run the iPod within the iPhone. Same with apps -- just run the App Store app and you get to download free and commercial apps easily.
Now, they've introduced MobileMe which works perfectly with the iPhone. Anyone who watches the MobileMe Guided Tour will get it. It explains how 'push'-ing really works -- something MS never did with Exchange, with regards to targetting the end-users.
Now, you have the GPS built in running on top of the Google Map app, which also seamlessly integrate with the contacts app. You also have security beefed up, as well as now ready for the enterprise. Oh, and iTunes detects if you need to update the iPhone's firmware and it will let you do so with just one click -- very en-user safe. And of course there's the excellent Apple support (which I hope thy carry across the planned 62 countries).
I guess what we can see is how important integration is, and how end-user focused Apple really is. You'll be amazed how people don't mind paying for a premium as long as you get what you pay for.
But then again, let's not forget how apple has made the iPhone so user friendly. As an end-user who don't know anything about the iPhone, you just know that if you want to purchase music, run the iPod within the iPhone. Same with apps -- just run the App Store app and you get to download free and commercial apps easily.
Now, they've introduced MobileMe which works perfectly with the iPhone. Anyone who watches the MobileMe Guided Tour will get it. It explains how 'push'-ing really works -- something MS never did with Exchange, with regards to targetting the end-users.
Now, you have the GPS built in running on top of the Google Map app, which also seamlessly integrate with the contacts app. You also have security beefed up, as well as now ready for the enterprise. Oh, and iTunes detects if you need to update the iPhone's firmware and it will let you do so with just one click -- very en-user safe. And of course there's the excellent Apple support (which I hope thy carry across the planned 62 countries).
I guess what we can see is how important integration is, and how end-user focused Apple really is. You'll be amazed how people don't mind paying for a premium as long as you get what you pay for.
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Reggie Suplido
Reggie Suplido
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1) your verizon phone may not be usable as a phone without service, but I bet it's usable for its PIM features (whichever ones it may or may not have) without service. Why can't I do that with an iPhone 3G?
2) What about someone who wants to buy the iPhone 3G for use as a GoPhone? How much will the iPhone 3G cost in THAT case?