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sachin007 is offline sachin007
2008-03-25 , 09:22
Posts: 2,041 | Thanked: 1,066 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Houston
#61
Originally Posted by tso View Post
i guess it depends on what one define as a ecosystem. i think its just funny that in this day and age, when even osx runs on x86, apple still insist on tying the os to "their" hardware.



sorry that i wasnt clear. im ok with people using something or other in the work environment. but when there is no work related reason to choose product x over product y, and product x even has a more restricted feature set, it screams fashion to me.

people pirating photoshop to do silly filter combos, when they could just have downloaded gimp. using ms word to write something when even the notepad app that comes with windows would do. thats the kind of stuff that im talking about.



and i dont have a problem with it either. its just that as of the day apple launched the iphone, its been iphone killer x y z and so on poping out of the woodwork. its as if the mobile phone with music player didnt exist before the iphone showed up. same thing it was with the ipod, only that when the first one of those showed up, they really did have an edge on the other products of the time.

but then i also keep saying that the iphone is a product of the us mobile phone market. at least thats the impression im left with when people talk about special tethering plans needed to use their phone as a internet connection of their laptop or other devices.

btw, what was that quite about freedom and safety again?

oh, and to give one more indication of the kind of person i am. i would have much rather seen w3c go with ogg video and audio as default web format. no matter how much worse the video part is then other codecs out there.
Yeah apple definitely brought an awakening of the mobile US. Now they think whatever apple did was cutting edge. If only they knew how mobile technology is well ahead atleaset a couple of years in europe and asia!!
 
nilchak is offline nilchak
2008-03-25 , 14:40
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#62
All this Apple bashing, Nokia bashing is getting me dizzy, and while I am of the bend who thinks Apple is more fashion then technology in its overall image (internally its as much technology as any other company, but it sells its tech with a lot of fashion flair, hence the image), I do have to agree here that Apple did change the rules of the game in the US mobile market.

Credit is due where it is true. Cant avoid this fact.

Firstly Apple forced these basterdly service providrers to negotiate on its terms. Thats a BIG change. Everywhere in the world it is not so tighly controlled by the ISP's as to what goes in in the device.

And inspite of the bogeyman logic that the ISP throw at us - NETWORK SECURITY - I have seen people (in India) using hell of a lot of 3rd party apps and games and software being installed on their phones, and the network just carries on as smooth as it was - no breakdown and no netweork outages and security issues that we in USA are made to believe .

Phones should be free and follow a certain standard radio protocol so as not to interrupt the whole network. Outside of that there should be the freedon to install apps in the user space which does not clash with the network space. Dont see whats wrong with that.

And it is this dictation by the ISP that prevents Nokia from putting a cell radio into the IT, cause otherwise they will be regulated by tghe ISP and the openness will not be there in the first place, that we so cherish of the IT's.

So in that sense Apple has been a game changer.

Also on the UI level, while touchscreens have abounded even before iPhone, iPhone has taken it to a new level and made it mainstream. Its not the cutting edge which matters, its the popularity and mass-appeal that counts in the consumer market. Apple took a existing but less used technology and took it mainstream.

I hardly remember any touchscreen phones which had mass market strength (Motorola Ming ?)

But the downside of Apple is that while (maybe) freeing us from the ISP's dictates, iPhone users are now under Apple's dictates.
Call it jumping from the frying pan into the fire ? :-)
 

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iontruo2 is offline iontruo2
2008-03-25 , 16:35
Posts: 122 | Thanked: 34 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Eastern Ontario, Canada
#63
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
All this Apple bashing, Nokia bashing is getting me dizzy, and while I am of the bend who thinks Apple is more fashion then technology in its overall image (internally its as much technology as any other company, but it sells its tech with a lot of fashion flair, hence the image), I do have to agree here that Apple did change the rules of the game in the US mobile market.

Credit is due where it is true. Cant avoid this fact.

Firstly Apple forced these basterdly service providrers to negotiate on its terms. Thats a BIG change. Everywhere in the world it is not so tighly controlled by the ISP's as to what goes in in the device.
I totally agree with you on that point. sachin007 also makes a good point about Apple bringing an awakening to the U.S.(Canada) market.
We have long suffered here with a growth curve gosh 10 years behind Europe. Coverage in Canada has been mediocre and rates are sky high absurd for data even though voice obviously comes in digital first as well. Blackberry has been all the rage here for a few years and I often wonder why. In other words we have had half step products trickling out for ages, never quite igniting the mass appeal. So, in Canada its 'here have another little tiny phone with evdo network and silly downloads etc that cost you at every turn.' Or 'unlimited data really meant 300mbs. wtf!?

So I applaud Apple in light of that personal reflection of the Canadian state of affairs.


Getting to a comment by TSO about people pirating Photoshop. Heck I've been a 'basic' Photoshop user since about 1996/97 and still use a version on OS9 with loads of functionality. At this stage, like basic office software, some form of Photoshop should be free by now after about 10-15 years of the basic premises.
That said, I was willing to pay Apple $70Cdn for iWork08 which seemed an intelligent price point for basic good office apps.

This is certainly a spirited discussion and I relish the views expressed here. I use Mac and welcomed the iPhone(don't have one though), but I greatly enjoy my N800 and I use a Treo650 for PIM and cell.

Just my user point of view.
 

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tabletrat is offline tabletrat
2008-03-25 , 18:44
Posts: 481 | Thanked: 65 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ Westcountry, UK
#64
Originally Posted by tso View Post
i guess it depends on what one define as a ecosystem. i think its just funny that in this day and age, when even osx runs on x86, apple still insist on tying the os to "their" hardware.
Well, yes, why not? There is more money to be made on hardware than the development of the software. Especially if their software worked on other machines easily it would be mostly pirated.
I don't mind them making profit as I prefer to use macosx than any other system I have (I am a windows programmer for a living, and used to be a solaris/linux one).
If they have to make a profit so I don't have to use windows or linux in my free time, I am very happy with that!

Yes, it does get very tiring when people assume that it has to be a fashion thing (which is even odder with the mac, when windows is the 95% fashion!)

Originally Posted by tso View Post
sorry that i wasnt clear. im ok with people using something or other in the work environment. but when there is no work related reason to choose product x over product y, and product x even has a more restricted feature set, it screams fashion to me.
I have very rarely met anyone who used any computer for fashion. Maybe where you are it is different.

Originally Posted by tso View Post
people pirating photoshop to do silly filter combos, when they could just have downloaded gimp. using ms word to write something when even the notepad app that comes with windows would do. thats the kind of stuff that im talking about.
fully agree. Trouble is that it is far too easy, especially people who just get disks of software of their friends or work colleagues.

Originally Posted by tso View Post
and i dont have a problem with it either. its just that as of the day apple launched the iphone, its been iphone killer x y z and so on poping out of the woodwork. its as if the mobile phone with music player didnt exist before the iphone showed up. same thing it was with the ipod, only that when the first one of those showed up, they really did have an edge on the other products of the time.
Well, yes, as a long time iPod owner (yes, I got one of the first ones before they were fashionable, does that make me acceptable?) I find the years of 'new iPod killer' articles boring, especially when you can look at the article and realise that it wont be an iPod killer, and it is obvious why.

Originally Posted by tso View Post
but then i also keep saying that the iphone is a product of the us mobile phone market. at least thats the impression im left with when people talk about special tethering plans needed to use their phone as a internet connection of their laptop or other devices.
It is. In fact from here it seems like the first time we have heard of the US actually *having* a cellphone market! (yes, I lived there 10 years ago and was suprised how it worked and how uncommon it was)
From here it looks like a very strange place.

In fact it has caused apple problems, in that they didn't understand how the non US market worked. We don't really pay for phones, an 18 month contract is about the longest anyone will go for and lots of minutes/texts are normal.

I would love an iPhone, but it is £15/month more than my current contract for 150 minutes/400 texts less and it uses a slow network.

Originally Posted by tso View Post
btw, what was that quite about freedom and safety again?

oh, and to give one more indication of the kind of person i am. i would have much rather seen w3c go with ogg video and audio as default web format. no matter how much worse the video part is then other codecs out there.
I would rather they used the best tool for the job that wasn't tied to a manufacturer. Not that it matters what the w3c say anyway, as regardless people just do what microsoft do. I guess that is the real fashion
 
HellToupee is offline HellToupee
2008-03-26 , 13:07
Posts: 21 | Thanked: 4 times | Joined on Mar 2008
#65
Originally Posted by tabletrat View Post
Well, yes, why not? There is more money to be made on hardware than the development of the software. Especially if their software worked on other machines easily it would be mostly pirated.
I don't mind them making profit as I prefer to use macosx than any other system I have (I am a windows programmer for a living, and used to be a solaris/linux one).
If they have to make a profit so I don't have to use windows or linux in my free time, I am very happy with that!
actually more money to be made with software margins are higher especially when competitors are few.

OSX already works on other systems despite their best efforts to prevent it.
Last edited by HellToupee; 2008-03-26 at 13:10.
 
JonnyBruha is offline JonnyBruha
2008-03-27 , 00:24
Posts: 8 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Mar 2008
#66
I didn't read through all of this thread, but I recently had my own first hand experience with my own iPhone and the N810 that I feel like sharing.

I have had one variant or another of the N95 for the past year now and have had plenty of experience with the iPhone from friends who wasted their money on it and from frequent visits to the Apple store when I'm near one when I was deciding whether or not to buy one. I got my tax return just last week and got a great deal on a refurbished 8gb from Apple's website. I received the phone on Monday and I put it on eBay the next day.

I was always under the impression the iPhone had the same screen size as the N810, but that's not the case. The only features of the iPhone that I felt were remotely worth the cost were the fun finger flicking UI and the overall feel of the device when handling it. I was prepared to accept its shortcomings compared to me N95-3 and just use it as a fun backup phone on days when I knew I wouldn't need the high end features, but the iPhone couldn't even do THAT right! Reception, volume, and call quality were all laughable using the exact same T Mobile SIM card that has never given me any call problems in my N95.

I can understand the people who will defend this device up and down despite its faults just because it does give the user a very satisfying feeling with the multitouch UI, like you're using a piece of high-end equipment, but it fails miserably at following through with high-end features, much less the standard features that have holes all over the place too. I just wish people would get themselves exposed to a wider range of technology before hailing the iPhone as the end-all be-all device since their previous phone was probably a RAZR.

Needless to say, my N810+N95-3 combo is much more well equipped for my daily tasks.
 
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krisse is offline krisse
2008-03-27 , 22:55
Posts: 1,540 | Thanked: 1,045 times | Joined on Feb 2007
#67
Originally Posted by w14 View Post
The thing that I really like about the iphone is the unlimited data.
Unlimited data is absolutely NOTHING to do with the iPhone.

Unlimited data is entirely based on which SIM card you're using, and if your network operator lets you buy data at a flat rate.

My network operator lets me have unlimited data on my SIM card for about $12 a month, and I can use that SIM card in absolutely any GSM or WCDMA device I want. In fact they even help me switch, because if I switch to a new device, the operator automatically sends that device a text message which optionally lets me install all the correct settings for accessing the internet and multimedia services.

My network operator doesn't care at all what I do with the SIM card as long as I pay my bill on time.

Apple on the other hand forces you to use their SIM card only with their phones, and then takes their share of the phone bill too.

And because Apple take a share of the phone bill, it's in their interest to make sure the phone bills stay as high as possible, which is not a healthy situation for a hardware manufacturer. Imagine a car manufacturer that took a share of all the money its users spent on fuel... what would be the result of that?
 
GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2008-03-27 , 23:03
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#68
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Imagine a car manufacturer that took a share of all the money its users spent on fuel... what would be the result of that?
Well, judging from the results, krisse, I guess that here in the United States, that must be the case!
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brontide is offline brontide
2008-03-28 , 02:14
Posts: 868 | Thanked: 474 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Capital District, NY, USA
#69
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Unlimited data is absolutely NOTHING to do with the iPhone.
Unless you live in the US and $20/month for unlimited data is actually a very good deal ( not counting all of the ways to do it that violate your TOS with your cell carrier ).
 
brecklundin is offline brecklundin
2008-03-28 , 03:36
Posts: 364 | Thanked: 54 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#70
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
How much patience do you have?

whyyyyy you leetle rat-bastage!!! yet ANOTHER hint-hint-nudge-nudge-know-what-I-mean-wink-wink!! hehehehehe....
 
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