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2009-01-12
, 23:32
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#62
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
It does seem irrelevant if you put it that way, but it probably became part of the conversation when it was pointed out that Nokia's decisions and posturing is becoming an impediment to attracting participation in open source directed at the maemo platform. It seems, from my reading, as if it turned from a rallying 'how?' to a more boggled 'how?' It seems to have had the effect of questioning whether everyone's time and efforts are going to be worthwhile. Eiffel's comments appear to strike the nail on the head with his comments. Mind you, I'm also cynical by nature and I'm very happy when I'm proven wrong--but it seems as if that doesn't often happen. How do you or anyone else respond to that?
Originally Posted by danramosYes, the Maemo Community and how we can better our participation in open source projects in this community. That doesn't make a Nokia-bashing festival productive or appropriate.I think you'll find it's about the community around Nokia's products.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I'm not sure that I agree. Can you explain the problem that this illustrates? Are you suggesting that Nokia is completely irrelevant? What can you suggest to get people more focused on the applications for maemo and less on Nokia's involvement?
Originally Posted by danramosNatural or not, it's still silly and counter-productive to the point Quim started this thread for. More than anything, it illustrates exactly our problem.Given maemo isn't really the popular platform outside of these devices yet, and these devices don't often get used with something other than maemo (drivers are a good reason, I'd suppose), I think that it might be natural to see a lot of friction in a thread like this one.
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2009-01-12
, 23:35
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#63
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Originally Posted by Texrat
"Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing." - Data
We are dysfunctional! Hear us gripe!
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2009-01-12
, 23:49
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#64
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Alright, johnx was kind enough to step up and perhaps push this in a more productive direction (Thanks, johnx!).
This thread is that it's already been poisoned (probably beyond recovery), and the format may not serve so well as good ideas tend to get lost in the noise. So, he put together a wiki page.
Ideas should be much less prone to become lost in the noise, and individual issues can be addressed more directly. The wiki-format also serves to curb flamey-discussion.
The sections on the page are only placeholders, a better organization will come when we have more problem/solution pairs to sort.
This thread is that it's already been poisoned (probably beyond recovery), and the format may not serve so well as good ideas tend to get lost in the noise. So, he put together a wiki page.
Ideas should be much less prone to become lost in the noise, and individual issues can be addressed more directly. The wiki-format also serves to curb flamey-discussion.
The sections on the page are only placeholders, a better organization will come when we have more problem/solution pairs to sort.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-01-12
, 23:50
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#65
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Nokia wants to talk about community. The community wants to talk about Nokia. Cats and dogs start living together.
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N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
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2009-01-13
, 00:01
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#66
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Originally Posted by danramos
(I hesitate to encourage more off-topic discussion here, but a separate thread is likely to lead only to more vitriol and little that could be called productive.)
It does seem irrelevant if you put it that way, but it probably became part of the conversation when it was pointed out that Nokia's decisions and posturing is becoming an impediment to attracting participation in open source directed at the maemo platform.
What decisions, exactly? What "posturing"? Nokia certainly isn't there yet, but they've made great strides from where they started, and these things take time
Far from being helpful and productive, the angrier discussions just serve to widen the divide between the community and its goals and Nokia, and hurting the people who are already on our side (you know, the ones who take time out from their busy schedules to participate in discussions like these).
It may make us feel better spend so much time ranting and raving about how much at fault Nokia is, but in the end it's counter-productive to our real goals.
Originally Posted by danramos
Define "it" for me. What has questioned the value of everyone's time and efforts? Quim's post? I don't see it.
It seems, from my reading, as if it turned from a rallying 'how?' to a more boggled 'how?' It seems to have had the effect of questioning whether everyone's time and efforts are going to be worthwhile. Eiffel's comments appear to strike the nail on the head with his comments. Mind you, I'm also cynical by nature and I'm very happy when I'm proven wrong--but it seems as if that doesn't often happen. How do you or anyone else respond to that?
Eiffel's comments address a separate issue that isn't on-topic here.
Originally Posted by danramos
Of course not, nothing's that black and white.
I'm not sure that I agree. Can you explain the problem that this illustrates? Are you suggesting that Nokia is completely irrelevant?
Nokia is a significant part of the community, but every one of the community's problems doesn't immediately come back to Nokia, its behaviours, and its decisions. Pretending that it's all Nokia's fault and willfully ignoring our own issues doesn't help us to build a stronger community.
Originally Posted by danramos
Being mindful of what's on- and off-topic here. Perhaps johnx's wiki page will also help.
What can you suggest to get people more focused on the applications for maemo and less on Nokia's involvement?
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-01-13
, 00:09
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#67
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GA, as much as you disagree with some content, there is value in venting. Better here than, say, the wiki.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-01-13
, 00:20
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#68
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Certainly, but after a certain point you have to move beyond venting to doing something about it, which is where this community often falls down, and addressing that is largely the point of this thread. . . .
GA, as much as you disagree with some content, there is value in venting.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-01-13
, 00:23
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#69
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...agreed.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-01-13
, 00:45
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#70
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Well, I'll state the obvious here just because it seems to be getting glossed over or forgotten.
Certainly, but after a certain point you have to move beyond venting to doing something about it, which is where this community often falls down, and addressing that is largely the point of this thread. . . .
A software community, no matter how good, and I mean guru good, cannot change hardware. Maybe I/we chose the wrong thread to talk about such things, and for that I apologize. But Nokia hardware decisions currently seems to be the elephant-in-the-living-room. But okay, we/you can talk about software UI, community, whatever. Sounds fun.
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N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net