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2009-07-07
, 09:36
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#62
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Originally Posted by vivainio
It's not just a matter of motivation. Someone who is able to code an app in Gtk+ doesn't necessarily have the skills to hack Gtk+ itself. Also, the switch involves all of Hildon, ie a lot more than just Gtk+ - what about control panel, home & statusbar applets, input methods, and libraries like libhildonmime & libhildonnotify? Consider that their Harmattan replacements most likely won't have C bindings.
Those who want to be able to code in Gtk for phones certainly should be motivated enough to get the community port of hildon working on Harmattan,
It shouldn't be a gigantic effort, you can basically get the fremantle version of hildon and remove the clutter-specific code.
Perhaps Nokia could fund this enough to get it kickstarted, and leave the maintenance/improvement for the community.
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2009-07-07
, 09:37
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Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 246 times |
Joined on Feb 2009
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#63
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Originally Posted by vivainio
Clutter is used in Frematle mostly in Hildon desktop compositing
It shouldn't be a gigantic effort, you can basically get the fremantle version of hildon and remove the clutter-specific code. Perhaps Nokia could fund this enough to get it kickstarted, and leave the maintenance/improvement for the community.
window manager, it is not used in applications.
The things need to be done are mostly same that we needed to do
for Hildonized QT. Adapt Hildon to Harmattan Styles and Input
method.
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2009-07-07
, 09:50
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#64
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Originally Posted by lma
Not really. There have been low power/embedded x86 versions quite a while now, even from vendors other than Intel (see geode). x86 (like ARM) isn't JUST an instruction set, it's a platform and brings quite a bit of baggage (which you need to carry on to be compatible), and instruction sets are just a facet of that. The two ways they can overcome this is that they break compatibility (not really x86 then, is it?), or make fabrication improvements WAY beyond any ARM licensee (not gonna happen in years).
Sure, current x86 chips don't have the power management features of current ARM chips, but there's nothing in the instruction set that dictates that, it's simply that they have been targetting the PC market so far.
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2009-07-07
, 10:28
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#65
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Originally Posted by attila77
Yeah (my favourite being VIA), but they don't go far enough for "mobile" use yet. They concentrate on making the chip more efficient while leaving it and the associated "chipset" running all the time whereas an OMAP can switch off most parts when they are not used, getting similar idle consumption rates as "suspend to RAM" would on an x86. Oversimplifying a bit (yes, I know about C-states, P-states etc) but all current x86 chips eat a lot of juice unnecessarily even when they're doing nothing.
Not really. There have been low power/embedded x86 versions quite a while now, even from vendors other than Intel (see geode).
The two ways they can overcome this is that they break compatibility (not really x86 then, is it?)
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2009-07-07
, 11:05
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Posts: 356 |
Thanked: 231 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#66
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Originally Posted by lma
They have to rewrite only low level stuff. User space apps written for Qt in Fremantle should work without many problems in Harmattan.
They say they can't do that because of lack of resources, but at the same time they admit they'll have to rewrite everything that draws on the screen to C++/Qt which is orders of magnitude more work. Something does not quite compute there...
I think this announcement means for developers: you want stable platform now: use GTK+ for now and face uphill battle later with unsupported foundations or rewriting of your program in Qt.
But if you plan with few years ahead you should start already with Qt. Yes, this will be unsupported officially now but you can use Fremantle as beta stage and have solid release with Harmattan in 2010.
Note that it is in sync with roadmap for Symbian^x (recently linked here) where also only in 2010 fully new version with Qt as primary user space language will be released. IMO every puzzle nicely fits in.
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2009-07-07
, 11:22
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#67
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Originally Posted by vvaz
Uhmm... you are ignoring all the Nokia userland stuff. They will have to rewrite every single hildon user-space app/applet in C++/Qt. That includes the file manager, media player, image viewer, pdf reader, rss reader, calculator, clock, sketch, terminal, application manager, backup/restore, connection manager, internet call, chat, contacts, modest, microb, control panel, statusbar and desktop applets, the whole shebang.
They have to rewrite only low level stuff. User space apps written for Qt in Fremantle should work without many problems in Harmattan.
Additionally, all the "partner" applications will have to be rewritten as well: skype, gizmo, wayfinder etc. I'm guessing the Mozilla (fennec, not microb) people may not be too happy to switch to Qt either.
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2009-07-07
, 11:25
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Posts: 356 |
Thanked: 231 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#68
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So that's why it takes one more year to get fully supported Qt edition of IT. Mozilla, well who needs them with QtWebKit?
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2009-07-07
, 12:08
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Posts: 222 |
Thanked: 205 times |
Joined on Jul 2009
@ Finland
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#69
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Originally Posted by lma
Luckily, Nokia will be footing the bill for those. Considering that it would have happened anyway at some point (in order to not completely "orphan" Maemo from the other stuff they are doing, e.g. with Symbian), it's better to do it now than 2 years down the road.
They will have to rewrite every single hildon user-space app/applet in C++/Qt. That includes the file manager, media player, image viewer, pdf reader, rss reader, calculator, clock, sketch, terminal, application manager, backup/restore, connection manager, internet call, chat, contacts, modest, microb, control panel, statusbar and desktop applets, the whole shebang.
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2009-07-07
, 12:27
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#70
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Again, no need to worry. All those pesky applications will be deprecated and only MicroB will ship in the default rootfs.... the rest will be "community" maintained. 
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It shouldn't be a gigantic effort, you can basically get the fremantle version of hildon and remove the clutter-specific code. Perhaps Nokia could fund this enough to get it kickstarted, and leave the maintenance/improvement for the community.