Originally Posted by ysss

What he did was identify just a handful of key sellable features that he can commit his limited resources on (design, code, produce, etc) and omit/delay/underrate the rest of the features... until they are ready to deliver those (missing features).

If he didn't go through that pattern, Apple couldn't have taken a market\mindshare lead just as they did with the iPhone.

Originally Posted by richwhite

Well it wasn't Microsoft to roll out the GUI was it? In fact i'm pretty sure Gates even said it would never catch on. Apple may not have invented it, but they did popularise it, and honestly, isn't that a good thing?

Originally Posted by danramos

Well, based on the way the argument was being made, Apple was popularly known for putting it out there on the first mass-produced production home computer systems, but they neither popularized it (since there were far more Windows computers, even in the Macintosh's own time) nor invented it (Xerox PARC did, in fact).

Originally Posted by richwhite

Seems like you're being deliberately tricky with language here. I never said they invented it, in fact I think i clearly stated they didn't. But, Gates spoke against it initially, so MS didn't use it first. Whether Apple popularised it by having most users or because they simply influenced Microsoft to embrace it is beside the point - they were the driving force behind it becoming a feature on mass market home computers.

I don't see the purpose of slating Apple to the nth degree to the point of basically incinuating they've done nothing for technology over the years, because they have. One needn't invent something to spearhead its wide acceptance. I like Apple products on the whole. I'm no fanboi by any stretch, I was given an old iMac which i use on odd occasion but my desktop PC and laptop are both Windows. I don't own an iPhone and never will because I hate it with a passion, and I don't own an iPod (never have). I also moved away from iTunes to Songbird. I hate Apple's lockdown policies. I hate Jobs' attitude and the way he sees himself as a Messiah, inventing everything and saying something isn't necessary then deciding it is necessary and claiming to invent or do it better. But, I still recognise that they have had an impact over the years, and while i hate the iPhone i do like how it spurred on competition to advance smartphones.

Originally Posted by danramos

Seems like you're deliberately ignoring the details I pointed out with my language. You agree that they didn't invent it, but you tried to convince me that they popularized it and I pointed out that it would seem to me that Microsoft popularized the GUI far more than Apple ever did (popularization being quantitative), while Apple was the first to roll out GUI on mass produced units. To the point that Bill Gates spoke against GUI's at first, you might recall that he said much of that while at the same time ranting and whipping at his employees that he wants Microsoft to develop a GUI to compete with Apple. Gates was being strategic, not genuine.

To my point, Microsoft wasn't very good at anything other than business strategy and cutting out the competition through various legal, contractual and guerrilla marketing strategies. BUT! I think you give Apple far too much credit for various things, although they do deserve some credit for stirring up competition over the years.

Originally Posted by richwhite

Look at my last post, I clearly acknowledged that popularised isn't necessarily done through selling the most units, but spurring another company to embrace it and sell more of it.

I don't think i give too much credit to Apple because I don't think i give them much credit at all. I simply said i like some of their products, and they've had an impact in their time, which is true.

Originally Posted by danramos

It appears we're saying the same things. Then we, good sir, are in agreement! GOOD DAY!

Originally Posted by richwhite

The age old problem of text comunication!

Originally Posted by daperl

Hey, you two, stop arguing and get your facts straight. Here are two good, fun and time consuming places to start:

http://www.folklore.org/index.py

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xflXMZL2stU