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Sailfish OS for the Motorola Moto G7 Power (XT1955-5) - (ocean) (9)
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to MeeGo / Harmattan by nieldk - 6 days, 20 hrs ago - more...
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2011-07-29
, 13:02
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Banned |
Posts: 974 |
Thanked: 622 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#62
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Originally Posted by tkatchev
Easy now, or you will end up like Tomi. The smartphone "war" is lost as far as Nokia is concerned. They have given up. MeeGo is gone and Symbian will be gone pretty soon. They see a future with WP, but the days where Nokia had it all will never come back. WP was lesser of two evils, the other was Android. But you can't look back, you have to look fwd and make the best of what you have right now. WP will be good for Nokia, unless it fails miserably, but if it fails it will be MS that looses, not Nokia. Nokia has already lost. I really don't see MS giving up on this. Even if the Mango iteration should fail (unlikely, but a possibility), they will simply improve further until they get it right, and Nokia is on for the ride.
Where do you get the 'hostile' part from?
Elop and the Nokia board are acting anything but hostile. In fact, they're practically begging on their knees to be taken over and raped. The massive amounts of unrequited Microsoft love they're showing is downright creepy.
S40 is much more interesting for Nokia than WP. That is where the volumes are, and that is where they have full control. The C2 touch and type series are smartphones for all practical purposes, and for the moment there is nothing that can compete with it. I am actually considering getting one myself, the market for apps on S40 is like nothing you will ever see, and web-apps looks fun and interesting in many ways. I was skeptical about all this, but this something to consider if you are a developer. Harmattan will hump along for the ride, taking advantage of Ovi and Qt.
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2011-07-29
, 13:42
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#63
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Originally Posted by ericsson
There might be a problem for Nokia with S40 because Elop in his wisdom may well have god rid of all the Symbian developers inside Nokia, and if WP fails for instance and Nokia have to start somewhere, what area is left for them that has any developers left inside of the company? just food for thought.
Easy now, or you will end up like Tomi. The smartphone "war" is lost as far as Nokia is concerned. They have given up. MeeGo is gone and Symbian will be gone pretty soon. They see a future with WP, but the days where Nokia had it all will never come back. WP was lesser of two evils, the other was Android. But you can't look back, you have to look fwd and make the best of what you have right now. WP will be good for Nokia, unless it fails miserably, but if it fails it will be MS that looses, not Nokia. Nokia has already lost. I really don't see MS giving up on this. Even if the Mango iteration should fail (unlikely, but a possibility), they will simply improve further until they get it right, and Nokia is on for the ride.
S40 is much more interesting for Nokia than WP. That is where the volumes are, and that is where they have full control. The C2 touch and type series are smartphones for all practical purposes, and for the moment there is nothing that can compete with it. I am actually considering getting one myself, the market for apps on S40 is like nothing you will ever see, and web-apps looks fun and interesting in many ways. I was skeptical about all this, but this something to consider if you are a developer. Harmattan will hump along for the ride, taking advantage of Ovi and Qt.
My definition of a smartphone is a device that will play anything you want it too, IF WP get's to that point then count me in !.
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2011-07-29
, 14:07
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Posts: 94 |
Thanked: 59 times |
Joined on Jun 2010
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#64
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Originally Posted by ericsson
not only smartphone war but also tablet war! they don't have only one tablet to propose to consummers!
Easy now, or you will end up like Tomi. The smartphone "war" is lost as far as Nokia is concerned. They have given up (...)
Harmattan will hump along for the ride, taking advantage of Ovi and Qt.
all manufacturers have one
Apple: ipad
Motorola: Xoom
LG: Optimus Pad
Samsung: Galaxy Tab
Sony Ericsson: S1
blackberry: playbook
HP(!): Touch pad
HTC: Flyer
nokia???
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2011-07-29
, 14:23
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Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#65
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
If you're outside of the automotive industry or these forums (TMO & MeeGo.com) I'm more than willing to bet they've not heard of MeeGo.
This is where we disagree because no way are us geeks the only known quantity to MeeGo.
Never read enough to see your comments of WP7 but would like to know them as i know you played a lot in that area.
I'm not a fan of their (MS Visual Studio .NET) development platform - been too many years since I've developed .NET actively. Wanted to see if Maemo 6/Qt would be a better fit for me, but more than likely stick to Android dev instead - can do Adobe AIR or Android App Inventor.
With that said, WP7 is better than folks give it credit. But I have to honestly stills ay that it's not good enough to have gambled Nokia's immediate future on though. And that's after a month solid of using it, playing with it, looking at code and investing into it some time.
Integration is lacking, UI feels snappy, e-mail app sorta sucks but beats Modest, browser (before IE9) REALLY sucks, no Adobe Flash yet, XBOX integration is sweet as hell if you have one, boots quickly, needs better hardware, isn't optimized for the existing hardware, has decent games, lacks front camera (until Mango), not bad on battery life (better than N900)... there you go. Rapid fire feedback.
I'd say that it's overly simplified though. They're outdoing Apple in that regard (not a good thing).
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2011-07-29
, 14:35
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#66
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Originally Posted by gerbick
I do honestly appreciate your comments about WP because quite frankly i have never played more than a few minutes worth and looking at what you have just said i would say for sure once Nokia get the "Nokia" handset ready i am sure WP will be much more advanced than before.
If you're outside of the automotive industry or these forums (TMO & MeeGo.com) I'm more than willing to bet they've not heard of MeeGo.
I've had quite a few comments about WP7. Love the UI, dislike the lack of apps that I've gotten accustomed to on iOS and Android. It's much maligned for no reason, but at the same time I can declare it to be a mediocre OS at the moment. Was playing with Mango (Build 7661) and IE9 is honestly quite the improvement.
I'm not a fan of their (MS Visual Studio .NET) development platform - been too many years since I've developed .NET actively. Wanted to see if Maemo 6/Qt would be a better fit for me, but more than likely stick to Android dev instead - can do Adobe AIR or Android App Inventor.
With that said, WP7 is better than folks give it credit. But I have to honestly stills ay that it's not good enough to have gambled Nokia's immediate future on though. And that's after a month solid of using it, playing with it, looking at code and investing into it some time.
Integration is lacking, UI feels snappy, e-mail app sorta sucks but beats Modest, browser (before IE9) REALLY sucks, no Adobe Flash yet, XBOX integration is sweet as hell if you have one, boots quickly, needs better hardware, isn't optimized for the existing hardware, has decent games, lacks front camera (until Mango), not bad on battery life (better than N900)... there you go. Rapid fire feedback.
I'd say that it's overly simplified though. They're outdoing Apple in that regard (not a good thing).
I respect your opinions even if some don't and would read your future comments on WP also.
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2011-07-29
, 16:20
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#67
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
You have a hope that I no longer have... not sure about Nokia's offerings being that much different than the other WP7 phones.
I do honestly appreciate your comments about WP because quite frankly i have never played more than a few minutes worth and looking at what you have just said i would say for sure once Nokia get the "Nokia" handset ready i am sure WP will be much more advanced than before.
I respect your opinions even if some don't and would read your future comments on WP also.
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2011-07-29
, 16:23
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Posts: 572 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
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#68
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windows phone its worse in everything else
mutltitask
customization
IM chat integration
even SKYPE
and microsoft bought it.
popular apps like whatsapp dont exist in wp7, there is even a s40 version.
lets be honest if the tiles were not animated, it would be a liveless square no difference of what we get on other platforms
apps are even displayed in a list. yes a LIST.
microsoft have to improve those to be competitive.
make the tiles more like WIDGETS, make windows phone user themeable. etc
mutltitask
customization
IM chat integration
even SKYPE
and microsoft bought it.popular apps like whatsapp dont exist in wp7, there is even a s40 version.
lets be honest if the tiles were not animated, it would be a liveless square no difference of what we get on other platforms
apps are even displayed in a list. yes a LIST.
microsoft have to improve those to be competitive.
make the tiles more like WIDGETS, make windows phone user themeable. etc
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2011-07-30
, 01:36
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Posts: 457 |
Thanked: 600 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#69
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Nothing new buts its worth repeating.
Nokia's profit margins will go down like it happened with all hardware manufacturers who don't control the software part. Lets not forget that nokia stocks were dropping because investors realized nokia will become another Dell. Not exactly irrelevant but nowhere near the expected profit margins they would have had even with a relatively small Qt ecosystem. Remember nokia once said they think about outsourcing manufacturing and concentrate on software, it looks like elop has other plans.
Quote from an investment banker (businessinsider.com):
The old CEO was fired, and Stephen Elop, a Microsoft executive, was brought in as CEO. It seemed that things were getting brighter. However, knowing what I know now, I truly believe that Mr. Elop was the worst thing that ever happened to Nokia and one of the best things that had happened to Microsoft for a long time. Elop announced that Nokia would abandon both Symbian and MeeGo and start making cell phones to run exclusively under the Microsoft Windows OS. With this move, Nokia went from being an Apple-like business that could differentiate itself from competitors because it controlled software and hardware and commanding low-teen profit margins (Apple’s margins are actually pushing the low 20s now), to a Dell-like company with net margins of 5% in a good year.
Though the Windows decision may have benefited Nokia in the short run, in the long run it reminded me what IBM did with Microsoft in the ’80s: it saw little value in the software and went after the hardware business. Cell-phone hardware will become ubiquitous in a few years and Nokia will be competing on price and manufacturing efficiency with its rivals. Microsoft on the other hand will get Windows installed on a huge number of phones, and it will benefit from Nokia’s enormous distribution system. And it only cost Microsoft a billion or two. When this announcement was made the market rightfully punished Nokia stock, and we got out at around $8.
Nokia's profit margins will go down like it happened with all hardware manufacturers who don't control the software part. Lets not forget that nokia stocks were dropping because investors realized nokia will become another Dell. Not exactly irrelevant but nowhere near the expected profit margins they would have had even with a relatively small Qt ecosystem. Remember nokia once said they think about outsourcing manufacturing and concentrate on software, it looks like elop has other plans.
Quote from an investment banker (businessinsider.com):
The old CEO was fired, and Stephen Elop, a Microsoft executive, was brought in as CEO. It seemed that things were getting brighter. However, knowing what I know now, I truly believe that Mr. Elop was the worst thing that ever happened to Nokia and one of the best things that had happened to Microsoft for a long time. Elop announced that Nokia would abandon both Symbian and MeeGo and start making cell phones to run exclusively under the Microsoft Windows OS. With this move, Nokia went from being an Apple-like business that could differentiate itself from competitors because it controlled software and hardware and commanding low-teen profit margins (Apple’s margins are actually pushing the low 20s now), to a Dell-like company with net margins of 5% in a good year.
Though the Windows decision may have benefited Nokia in the short run, in the long run it reminded me what IBM did with Microsoft in the ’80s: it saw little value in the software and went after the hardware business. Cell-phone hardware will become ubiquitous in a few years and Nokia will be competing on price and manufacturing efficiency with its rivals. Microsoft on the other hand will get Windows installed on a huge number of phones, and it will benefit from Nokia’s enormous distribution system. And it only cost Microsoft a billion or two. When this announcement was made the market rightfully punished Nokia stock, and we got out at around $8.
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2011-07-30
, 06:29
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#70
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Moody’s sinks Nokia’s value
http://www.scancomark.se/Companies/M...ias-value.html
US ratings agency Moody's cut its credit rating on bonds of Finnish phone maker Nokia by two notches on Wednesday and said the outlook on the rating was still negative. Moody’s is the third ratings agency to cut Nokia’s credit rating, after Fitch and S&P downgraded Nokia last month.
Nokia In Trouble As Moody’s Downgrades Debt To Just Above Junk
http://mobileinsider.mobi/news/934
Nokia is sitting by while most of the other phone manufacturers keep releasing new phones into the market that people want. Android and iPhone are extremely popular and Windows Phones still need to make a dent in the market and gain enough market share to make a difference. At this point, that has not happened. While Nokia is in limbo, people are shopping for their competitors phones and is evidenced by Nokia’s downgrading of sales.
http://www.scancomark.se/Companies/M...ias-value.html
US ratings agency Moody's cut its credit rating on bonds of Finnish phone maker Nokia by two notches on Wednesday and said the outlook on the rating was still negative. Moody’s is the third ratings agency to cut Nokia’s credit rating, after Fitch and S&P downgraded Nokia last month.
Nokia In Trouble As Moody’s Downgrades Debt To Just Above Junk
http://mobileinsider.mobi/news/934
Nokia is sitting by while most of the other phone manufacturers keep releasing new phones into the market that people want. Android and iPhone are extremely popular and Windows Phones still need to make a dent in the market and gain enough market share to make a difference. At this point, that has not happened. While Nokia is in limbo, people are shopping for their competitors phones and is evidenced by Nokia’s downgrading of sales.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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| bada rox, goodbye nokia, no-kia |
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I also would like to see Mango completed with N900 drivers so it could be installed as an os.
Never read enough to see your comments of WP7 but would like to know them as i know you played a lot in that area.