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| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ivgalvez For This Useful Post: | ||
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2012-06-30
, 21:26
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Posts: 804 |
Thanked: 1,598 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gdynia, Poland
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#62
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Originally Posted by vetsin
I don't really feel like this answers my questions, but thanks for pointing that out
@misiak,
i think your help is needed here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85061
maybe you can apply as section maintainer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=63
However, let's hope there are more experienced... administrators... out there who will be able to maintain a whole repository (and other sections). I'm more of a developer than administrator, but if there are no other volunteers (but I doubt there won't be any), I can administer too.
Originally Posted by ivgalvez
Thank you very much, I can't wait. The wiki page in form similar to http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages (with columns like: package name, category, really short description, programming languages and other technical stuff used, former maintainer, last package activity date, etc.) would be superb, but if we get just a list I can create a Wiki page and start filling the rest of info myself (and, let's hope, there will be others who will help with this, too)
msiak: Thank you very much for your offering. I'm sure you'll have the opportunity to help a LOT in the months coming.
I hope to finish round of contact with developers next week an I'll publish a list of orphaned applications looking for new parents.
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2012-06-30
, 21:58
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#63
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Originally Posted by Estel
as this person is not going to post anything "council or community" related anymore.... => Ignore list
Was that question for Council? So I'm supposed to answer it, eh?
---
Sure - I got message that few individuals are looking for a way to remove volunteers from volunteering, which is quite amusing, in itself. Considering former "contributions" of those outcry'ers, I'm not surprised. Unfortunately, troll happen - I remember similar ones wanting way to remove SD69 in last cadence, or Qole before, or...
Unfortunately, some people like to spend energy on harassing and dividing - well, it's their problem. What saddens me, is how easily others can be drawn into such little wars -probably, it require much less effort to do flamewar, than contribution
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Still, I'm waiting for joerg providing us sources - if such one exist (and are not "free" interpretation of referendum as whole), it would be very, very interesting to read. More, than 1/4 of TMO posts, lately, but I guess, that it's just life.
/Estel
__________________
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
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2012-07-01
, 05:51
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#64
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Answer is very simple - referendum is tool, which can be used to determine support in Community, for certain ideas. Because Council isn't freakin' government, and can't do or force anything, without, without other volunteers willing to participate.
deleting nonsense form quote, trying hard to keep any leftovers...
Which process doesn't exist allegedly? The process of collecting support on a signing list for a request addressed to a organizational entity? You are free to find this process described in any page you find when googling for "Volksbegehren".
Or do you refer to the process of council listening to such supported request? well, no comment on this one...
Or maybe you simply bother to explain to me what's your take of what a referendum in maemo is meant for then - you could take the opportunity to elaborate a bit about your constant accusations I'd bend any rules and invent things that are allegedly written down in a different way, buzzword "abuse of referendum system".
Honestly I can't see how and why you start *****ing at me this way. Must be you. Shocked?! WTF? Because I explained a commonly accepted well known procedure usually known as "democracy" at large, here particularly referendum? Chill, get a brain!
/j
Now, Your initial answer was suggesting, that there is some established way of abusing referendum for removing volunteers from volunteering, by first creating trolls heaven thread, and gaining support in it.Of course, it's not true, as it was only Your makeshift invention (and Your fail to provide sources of this "knowledge" speaks for itself).
Let alone fact, that You're giving heroine to addicts, it's just ridiculous idea, in itself. We can as good make referendum to stop fremangordon from volunteering to KP development. Sure, we have referendum system lying around, lets use it for something! I opt for stopping rapes in Darfur first, then we can make Nokia into producing Mer device.
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To make long story short - no, people that are interested in dividing Community, must wait for new election, and put their names in hat. Of course, they can always fork community before, provide infrastructure, etc - Council isn't government, and won't *knock knock* to their doors with army, to ensure unity.
Yet, I'm absolutely sure, that no forking will happen - as it would require some *real* work, which trolls are not used nor interested to do.
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Now, can we focus on real things? It seem, that in parallel, a discussion about existing (not imagined) procedure is going... Anyway, no matter what, You won't see more replies on this from me, as every second spend on it is wasted one.
/Estel
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
Last edited by Estel; 2012-07-01 at 06:00.
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2012-07-01
, 13:12
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#65
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Originally Posted by Estel
Read again your own post! To me it's clearly inconsistent and self-contradicting, regarding what council is supposed to do and has power / entitlement to decide to act or not (re-)act upon.
Answer is very simple - referendum is tool, which can be used to determine support in Community, for certain ideas. Because Council isn't freakin' government, and can't do or force anything, without, without other volunteers willing to participate.
Now, Your initial answer was suggesting, that there is some established way of abusing referendum for removing volunteers from volunteering, by first creating trolls heaven thread, and gaining support in it.Of course, it's not true, as it was only Your makeshift invention (and Your fail to provide sources of this "knowledge" speaks for itself).
Let alone fact, that You're giving heroine to addicts, it's just ridiculous idea, in itself. We can as good make referendum to stop fremangordon from volunteering to KP development. Sure, we have referendum system lying around, lets use it for something! I opt for stopping rapes in Darfur first, then we can make Nokia into producing Mer device.
---
To make long story short - no, people that are interested in dividing Community, must wait for new election, and put their names in hat. Of course, they can always fork community before, provide infrastructure, etc - Council isn't government, and won't *knock knock* to their doors with army, to ensure unity.
Yet, I'm absolutely sure, that no forking will happen - as it would require some *real* work, which trolls are not used nor interested to do.
---
Now, can we focus on real things? It seem, that in parallel, a discussion about existing (not imagined) procedure is going... Anyway, no matter what, You won't see more replies on this from me, as every second spend on it is wasted one.
/Estel
Your classification of a not even yet existing thread as "troll heaven" is not in line with what you're supposed to do as council.
[on a sidenote: while your definition of purpose of referendum is not completely off the point*), it clearly puts too much emphasis on poll aspect while completely ignoring where from those ideas should come that you correctly state should be topic of any such referendum.
It's NOT like these are the ideas of council that are to be decided upon in referendum (unless a council member submits an idea in his role as community member) - rather it's exactly those threads you denigrated as "troll heaven" (and I provided an all but trolling suggestion on topic of such a thread in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=46 "[edit1] usually you publish a decent letter of intent...") that are meant to provide input to council about which ideas to start a referendum about.
*): Actually I just noticed your definition is rather off the point in fact: a referendum is NOT a tool for council "to determine support in Community" (what you're referring to is actually a poll), it's clearly a way do get ultimately binding decisions of community about how council SHALL act on a particular issue. No matter what that particular issue might be. Now I see why you think decision about holding a referendum was in discretion of council. NO it's NOT. Council can reject a referendum the community asks for, if there are logical points in clearly defined rules that wouldn't allow to have a valid referendum. If there are no such points, the council is bound to organize a referendum for community, given there's a reasonable support for the request to have said referendum. The council _may_ start referendum on its own initiative if it feels like there's a question the community has to decide upon, but referendum usecases are not limited to that situation.
And please don't ask me again to point you to wikipages or *.gov so you could read about meaning and correct procedure of a referendum. Join #politics on IRC if you have any questions regarding that]
[edit] an additional note since your own words were "it seems easy to lure users into strange activity by posting any trolling" (owtte):
>>Now, Your initial answer was suggesting, that there is some established way of abusing referendum
incorrect
>>...for removing volunteers from volunteering
incorrect and completely made up / invented by you
>>Of course, it's not true
complete nonsense - of course it's not true since YOU invented all that
>>as it was only Your makeshift invention
No Sir, it's been YOUR invention
>>(and Your fail to provide sources of this "knowledge" speaks for itself).
Hard to even comment on that BS without using **** wording.
a) "Which process doesn't exist allegedly? The process of collecting support on a signing list for a request addressed to a organizational entity? You are free to find this process described in any page you find when googling for "Volksbegehren"." (here you are with your "source")
b) Fact is YOU seem to ignore my requests in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=60, and obviously you are incapable of understanding the meaning of my words in
"I don't think there's any such thing like "general referendum system", and if there were I'd bet it would apply to this particular case as well.
However it's not been me who invented the general idea of a referendum, including collecting votes to trigger an official referendum. It's pretty established in a lot of constitutions, just deciding about the proper threshold is up to your sole discretion as council in duty here, since I actually think there's no hard threshold written down for maemo anywhere (yet?)."
YOU are failing to provide any source of that "general referendum system" concept you love to quote so much.
You're also refusing to get the semantic of "e.g." (Example Given) that's used to indicate a suggestion here. According to common sense a suggestion is quite diametrically opposite to a quote of a written fact, so to any monkey trained to read it should be clear that the words "e.g. the count of valid votes in last election" is not a quote of any written down rule.
MEH, I fail to feel like continuing commenting on every incorrect word in your posts, since there are few that aren't.
Just for the occasional reader: the rest of this Estel's post as well as others are similarly made of 99% mere BS, written simply to insult, badmouth, and denigrate others.
Nuff said
/j
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2012-07-01 at 18:51.
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2012-07-01
, 13:12
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Posts: 5,028 |
Thanked: 8,613 times |
Joined on Mar 2011
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#66
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Absolutely agree, and I'm very glad that we've cleared this missunderstanding. I especially like comparision to request for shotting someone - it's exactly what I was trying to mention, as example of referendum that could gain many supporters, but would still not accepted by "authority".
since Estel mentioned to me that many people might have misconceived this post, here a clarification: this post is not meant to support any riot destined at directly removing any council member. Au contraire! It describes the general procedure to introduce requests for reasonable improvements or changes to rules, as practiced in virtually all democracies. Nobody would think such a procedure as described by me would have any chance to pan out for idiotic requests like e.g. all women aren't allowed to wear any clothes in public anymore ;-D. However common sense is that common sense will kill those idiotic requests in the stage of collecting support. And in the end it's the administrative entity that will reject requests that are against any of the valid rules aka laws - that's why a request to shoot politicians never will result in executive doing that (usually), despite I might imagine such a request often finds a lot of support ;-)
Of course, in our case, Council is such authority. I'm absolutely sure, that in case pf real need of another election, coming fromCommunity, Councilors wouldn't object to put it under referendum - but, it would require strong mandate, to be even considered.
In any case, it's all theoretical discussion, cause a) our fellow trolls aren't very popular either b) we have much more important things to do, and I'm sure, that Community would kick in a** anyone wanting to divide, instead of uniting.
/Estel
__________________
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
-
N900's HDMI-Out
-
Camera cover MOD
-
Measure battery's real capacity on-device
-
TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
-
Hardware's mods research is costly. To support my work, please consider donating. Thank You!
Last edited by Estel; 2012-07-01 at 13:14.
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2012-07-01
, 13:26
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Posts: 1,625 |
Thanked: 998 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#67
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Originally Posted by joerg_rw
Joerg,
Read again your own post! To me it's clearly inconsistent and self-contradicting, regarding what council is supposed to do and has power / entitlement to decide to act or not (re-)act upon. Your classification of a not even yet existing thread as "troll heaven" is not in line with what you're supposed to do as council.
Nuff said
/j
i know we didn't start off on a very good foot, a few weeks ago
(wasn't it because of a certain candidate to the Council, btw...(?))
nonetheless, basic poster advice, i'm sure you are aware of too... don't feed the troll
as much as it hurts to have to consider a Council's member as a troll...
to his defense, he doesn't do it with the usual purpose of the troll to start a flame war, but his posts are so ignominious that it amounts to the same, alas
well, as i posted elsewhere, let's consider any post made by another member of the Council then the Council Chair (Rob / SD69 now, after Council themselves decided to kick Estel out of this position...) as a personal post :|
__________________
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
information is a necessary though no sufficient condition to rationality...
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2012-07-01
, 13:32
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Posts: 7,075 |
Thanked: 9,073 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#68
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All posts are personal. If the community council will talk with that voice. Use the council account.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
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2012-07-03
, 13:12
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#69
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Originally Posted by misiak
Thanks for volunteering to help if needed. We are going to have a large need for trusted community members to administer the repos moving forward. Anyone who can help, please do so.
However, let's hope there are more experienced... administrators... out there who will be able to maintain a whole repository (and other sections). I'm more of a developer than administrator, but if there are no other volunteers (but I doubt there won't be any), I can administer too.
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2012-07-03
, 20:03
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#70
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Originally Posted by SD69
How ?
We are going to have a large need for trusted community members to administer the repos moving forward. Anyone who can help, please do so.
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| ask council, ask the council, community, councilors, questions |
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I hope to finish round of contact with developers next week an I'll publish a list of orphaned applications looking for new parents.