Sailfish(Jolla): Ideas/Qns & Concerns/Criticisms - Page 77 - maemo.org

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	Sohil876	2013-07-20 , 18:29
	Posts: 130 \| Thanked: 132 times \| Joined on Jan 2013 @ India	#761

Originally Posted by rcolistete

I'm the owner of a Asus Transformer TF101 tablet + Asus Eee Dock, rooted, with Ubuntu chroot, etc. And also a Nexus 4, but mainly for Ubuntu Touch. Yeah, I know F-Droid catalog since a long ago, this is an alternative way of installing softwares, while on Maemo 4/Maemo 5 third-party softwares (libraries, softwares with GUI, etc) are first class softwares available in Maemo.org repositories.

My N900 has more than 100 softwares installed, many programming tools, Easy Debian, etc. And I've never had any problem of library conflict breaking other apps.

I really have some libraries 5x repeated in my Android tablet. Some simple softwares take 10MB where 9.9MB are dependencies embedded...

Well, take Linux libraries and CLI tools, without GUI, without glibc it's a nightmare to port them to Android. Some aren't yet even after years of effort from the Android community.

Sorry, but after 1 year and half of Asus TF101 (Android 4.0) experience and even some tests of Android 4.2.2 on Nexus 4, I am the witness of many situations of softwares been closed, losing real state, etc. All my friends who are developers and have Android devices cite the same thing, it happens with all Android versions, all hardwares. A mobile OS (Android 4.2.2) on a quad core CPU and 2GB of RAM (of Nexus 4) showing it can't deal with real multitasking (even using Android default softwares) is a joke, a dumbed down OS.

RAM and CPU aren't features of the OS. And even with background tasks, Android softwares have multitasking limitations (even native ones).

Sorry, I am a ex-Psion (EPOC 16/32) user&developer, where a 32-bit real multitasking mobile OS (with micro-kernel) on a 16MB of RAM was a lot better than current mobile OS in stability, multitasking, advanced features, etc. My Psion Revo+ lasted 2 years without rebooting, even while I was programming on device in OPL anywhere, anytime.

So, from my ex-Psion point of view, Android, iOS and Windows Phone are just dumbed down mobile OS.

Thats why we now need a good alternative, android and iOS have dominated enough we now need a real GNU/Linux standard OS as alternative, i have no hope in ubuntu mobile but im rooting for tizen and sailfish.

mikecomputing	2013-07-20 , 18:41
Posts: 3,464 \| Thanked: 5,107 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden	#762

Originally Posted by Sohil876

Unreasonable? Dude you sound like "we have to support jolla at any cost"... commercial firm + their decisions + their additional work = their problem, if not sailfish why not tizen... what happened to go with what fills your need. By buying their product you are already risking your money and supporting them enough seeing its a new ecosystem and a new firm. Im not saying we should not support them, i just dont see a reason why if theyre unwilling to make needed efforts. Cmon see samsung and tizen, im not asking jolla to throw cash though, just saying how much theyre lacking to make developers intrested in their ecosystem in a much crowded fierce competition.

ROTFL, You compare a huge company with an upstart....

Are you comparing apples with Oranges also?

Now how many engineers does Samsung have vs Jolla?

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	wicket	2013-07-20 , 18:41
	Posts: 634 \| Thanked: 3,266 times \| Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia	#763

Originally Posted by pycage

With PySide code the situation will look differently, but it was never advertised for Sailfish development in the first place. It's a dead Nokia project. It's opensource and you can try port it to Qt5 if it's worth, or wait and see what PyOtherSide will be capable of. Probably PyOtherSide will be the cleaner and faster approach to bring QML and Python together.

Personally, I'm more interested in XWayland than PySide as the project I've been working on requires X.

You're correct that PySide was never advertised but Qt4 was. It would have been quite straightforward to rebuild/repackage PySide but that is not the case now.

I'm yet to see any official confirmation that thp has been employed by Jolla to work on PyOtherSide. We can only speculate that it will be ready any time soon. Jolla really do need to improve their communication.

I do wonder how much Jolla cares about the TMO community. They still haven't responded to the Questions & Ideas document (apart from a few questions that Stskeeps was kind enough to answer). I've seen they've done interviews for random bloggers so it's not like they have some policy that they don't answer questions. The doc is a bit out of date now and could do with a tidy up, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort as it doesn't seem like they are ever going to respond.

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mikecomputing	2013-07-20 , 18:50
Posts: 3,464 \| Thanked: 5,107 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden	#764

Originally Posted by marbleuser

Let me play devil's advocate here and add 'why not android'

if you port your app to android instead of jolla, then:
1. you've probably learned valuable(literally) dev skills
2. there's a good chance it will run on jolla
3. you don't need to worry about jolla changing their mind again.
4. you don't have to get involved in porting toolkits or xwayland (which was a serious suggestion by one member!!)
5. your potential audience is 10's of millions

win win.

Well then better buy an android device in that case. Or else people will complain like CRAZY when theyr realize Android apps will not work good on sailfishos

Would be more intresting to know how many developers who actually thinks its bad decision going wayland and Qt5. It seems most people here who complain are not even developers. So why on earth is this discussion still going on?????

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Last edited by mikecomputing; 2013-07-20 at 18:54.

	Sohil876	2013-07-20 , 19:05
	Posts: 130 \| Thanked: 132 times \| Joined on Jan 2013 @ India	#765

Originally Posted by mikecomputing

ROTFL, You compare a huge company with an upstart....

Are you comparing apples with Oranges also?

Now how many engineers does Samsung have vs Jolla?

I dont know why you think like that... i am not actually comparing jolla and their devs to samsungs army of devs or anything, im just saying jolla will have a fierce competition out there and samsung/intels tizen happens to be one of them and to be fair it is quite promising, others are :- already popular android, iOS, with runner ups windows phone 8, blackberry 10 and new comers firefox OS, ubuntu mobile (which was marketed like crazy by canonical ceo) and tizen which happens to be backed up by samsung/intel/linux foundation. What im saying in simple words is jolla to make sure its appstore is filled with quality native apps and make some efforts in making devs intrested to port their apps and write sailfish apps (as that is what a average user who buys a phone is ultimately intrested in).

Last edited by Sohil876; 2013-07-21 at 07:54.

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Lumiaman	2013-07-20 , 19:06
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Android apps will not work well on Jolla. That is a cold fact. Why go with inferior experience ?

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	wicket	2013-07-20 , 19:29
	Posts: 634 \| Thanked: 3,266 times \| Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia	#767

Originally Posted by mikecomputing

Well then better buy an android device in that case. Or else people will complain like CRAZY when theyr realize Android apps will not work good on sailfishos

Originally Posted by Lumiaman

Android apps will not work well on Jolla. That is a cold fact. Why go with inferior experience ?

Please stop spreading FUD and provide a technical reason why you believe that it will not be possible to replicate an Android environment inside Sailfish.

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Lumiaman	2013-07-20 , 19:32
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Why would android let them? Will not happen

jalyst	2013-07-20 , 19:42
Moderator \| Posts: 5,320 \| Thanked: 4,464 times \| Joined on Oct 2009	#769

Originally Posted by wicket

I'm yet to see any official confirmation that thp has been employed by Jolla to work on PyOtherSide. We can only speculate that it will be ready any time soon.

He is employed by them, whether or not the work is officially mandated by Jolla I'm not 100% sure, but it certainly seems that way.

I do wonder how much Jolla cares about the TMO community. They still haven't responded to the Questions & Ideas document (apart from a few questions that Stskeeps was kind enough to answer). I've seen they've done interviews for random bloggers so it's not like they have some policy that they don't answer questions. The doc is a bit out of date now and could do with a tidy up, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort as it doesn't seem like they are ever going to respond.

That's largely my fault, I've not bothered with doing much with it for many mths now, & even before then others were doing most of the work.
(And the docs have been locked for many months now, except for comments IIRC)

Originally Posted by mikecomputing

Well then better buy an android device in that case. Or else people will complain like CRAZY when theyr realize Android apps will not work good on sailfishos Would be more intresting to know how many developers who actually thinks its bad decision going wayland and Qt5. It seems most people here who complain are not even developers. So why on earth is this discussion still going on?????

I think you missed his point....

Originally Posted by Lumiaman

Why would android let them? Will not happen

Multiple Qns have been asked of your claims/future_predictions, still evading each & every one it seems, sad, so very sad.
Even sadder is that I've given up trying to maintain the original focus/intent of this thread...

Last edited by jalyst; 2013-07-20 at 19:54.

	wicket	2013-07-20 , 19:48
	Posts: 634 \| Thanked: 3,266 times \| Joined on May 2010 @ Colombia	#770

Originally Posted by Lumiaman

Why would android let them? Will not happen

That's not a technical reason. What makes you think that permission is required from Google (or Android as you put it)? Android apps already run out-of-the-box on non-Android devices such as the Blackberry PlayBook without permission from Google.