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2009-10-28
, 03:58
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Posts: 2,014 |
Thanked: 1,581 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#72
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In the words of "Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels"
CHILL WINSTON!
CHILL WINSTON!
__________________
Class .. : Power Poster, Potential Coder
Humor .. : [*********] Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Patience : [***-------] Weapon(s): +2 Logic Mace
Agro ... : |*****-----] Relic(s) : G1, N900
Class .. : Power Poster, Potential Coder
Humor .. : [*********] Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Patience : [***-------] Weapon(s): +2 Logic Mace
Agro ... : |*****-----] Relic(s) : G1, N900
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2009-10-28
, 04:07
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#73
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
So, currently, the way it's done is that missed calls show up on the dashboard much like SMSes, emails and IMs do. The dashboard indicates this, first, by showing a message bubble with the relevant information for a few seconds that then moves into the dashboard button. When you have alerts waiting the dashboard button will glow.
Thanks GA. I've had a crap couple of days, and I'm prone to depression, when trivia gets blown out of all proportion. I was lying here fretting about that - is there an icon to say you missed a call? Is there an icon to say you have voicemail? And thought I would never get to sleep... I knew if I fired up my trusty netbook some sane soul here would calm me down.
Like I said, though, adding a widget to show any of this information is pretty trivial. Somebody just needs to do it.
Originally Posted by RevdKathy
Nokia's lacing the water with something!
Though this place is a bit low on sanity tonight... sharks?
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-10-28
, 07:57
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Posts: 2,173 |
Thanked: 2,678 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Cornwall, UK
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#74
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Brilliant - that's what I need - a visual cue. Doesn't need to be a flash - just something that tells me when I pick up the device if I've missed a call. I don't get a lot of calls, so without that I could easily miss one.
So, currently, the way it's done is that missed calls show up on the dashboard much like SMSes, emails and IMs do. The dashboard indicates this, first, by showing a message bubble with the relevant information for a few seconds that then moves into the dashboard button. When you have alerts waiting the dashboard button will glow.
Like I said, though, adding a widget to show any of this information is pretty trivial. Somebody just needs to do it.
Anyone know what happens about network voicemail? I know that the network sends a signal - every phone I've ever had has carried the little 'loop tape' symbol to indicate unread mail.
Nokia's lacing the water with something!
__________________
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
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2009-10-28
, 09:56
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Posts: 3,841 |
Thanked: 1,079 times |
Joined on Nov 2006
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#75
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I have to agree with those mention the S-E style missed/received etc. call lists. I haven't seen anything that works any better.
As for missed calls (which is really the one important one, the use of the others were well described by benny1967), there's an indicator [on the S-E phones] right there on the display (which is also why I usually only delete from the missed calls list, I don't delete much from the others). But you still have to press a key, to 'wake up' the screen. That's one thing I liked from my older phones (the last one was a Nokia), those with an LCD screen which was also visible with the screen off/locked. I only had to glance at the phone to see if someone had called while I was away from the phone - the display changed the 'sleep mode' image.
Last edited by TA-t3; 2009-10-28 at 16:29. Reason: typo: Noklia->Nokia
As for missed calls (which is really the one important one, the use of the others were well described by benny1967), there's an indicator [on the S-E phones] right there on the display (which is also why I usually only delete from the missed calls list, I don't delete much from the others). But you still have to press a key, to 'wake up' the screen. That's one thing I liked from my older phones (the last one was a Nokia), those with an LCD screen which was also visible with the screen off/locked. I only had to glance at the phone to see if someone had called while I was away from the phone - the display changed the 'sleep mode' image.
__________________
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
Last edited by TA-t3; 2009-10-28 at 16:29. Reason: typo: Noklia->Nokia
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2009-10-28
, 10:38
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 747 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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#76
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Everyone outta just relax about phone functions and all the little features they want. It's a new phone with a new (as a phone) OS and not every little thing will be perfect immediately. But I'm sure most concerns will be addressed quickly. A bit of patience will get well rewarded. I average 15-20 calls, several messages, many emails a day and burn through around 2000 minutes a month. And I'm STILL not worried. It'll work well enough and even better soon.
As a comparison, when I first got my (pre-ordered) G1 it was also a new phone with a totally new OS. With the exception of the notifications system, Android was woefully basic and underdeveloped. Had about 6 apps available, an email client so basic and unreliable as to be almost unusable, not-so-hot browser, no bluetooth, etc. etc. etc. The 'nope' list was pretty long. Plus, the only Android phone, the G1, had very limited memory and was not too speedy.
But Android still succeeded and not just as a 'niche' product, but in a big way with general public users. Developers quickly stepped up, wrote some apps - and we see an explosion of Android hardware only a year later.
The N900/Maemo combo seems to me to be already way ahead of where the G1/Android was a year a go when Google and T-Mobile decided they were ready for public release with much fanfare. The hardware is already there, there's already experienced Maemo developers. Just need to add a few things to Maemo, do a little tweaking. No sweat.
So like I said - I'm not worried at all, this will work out fine. But I am gettin' kinda tired of waiting...
Last edited by Crashdamage; 2009-10-28 at 10:42.
As a comparison, when I first got my (pre-ordered) G1 it was also a new phone with a totally new OS. With the exception of the notifications system, Android was woefully basic and underdeveloped. Had about 6 apps available, an email client so basic and unreliable as to be almost unusable, not-so-hot browser, no bluetooth, etc. etc. etc. The 'nope' list was pretty long. Plus, the only Android phone, the G1, had very limited memory and was not too speedy.
But Android still succeeded and not just as a 'niche' product, but in a big way with general public users. Developers quickly stepped up, wrote some apps - and we see an explosion of Android hardware only a year later.
The N900/Maemo combo seems to me to be already way ahead of where the G1/Android was a year a go when Google and T-Mobile decided they were ready for public release with much fanfare. The hardware is already there, there's already experienced Maemo developers. Just need to add a few things to Maemo, do a little tweaking. No sweat.
So like I said - I'm not worried at all, this will work out fine. But I am gettin' kinda tired of waiting...
__________________
Registered Linux user #266531.
Registered Linux user #266531.
Last edited by Crashdamage; 2009-10-28 at 10:42.
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2009-10-28
, 10:41
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Posts: 631 |
Thanked: 1,123 times |
Joined on Sep 2005
@ Helsinki
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#77
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I guess if people would ask at the same time that why aren't more Nokians actively involved in these forums and at the same time would read the general tone and respect level of the individual messages, for instance in this particular thread, you would perhaps see some hints of the potential conflict built within.
i.e. semirandom people calling you incompetent based on some design detail does not really encourage you to actively participate in these discussions. Just as an observation. Hopefully I won't get flamed for this also.
--
Then again, for the actual issue. There was no usable tab component available for the designer (in this case me) to consider. The UI style guidance was to try to simplify the UI's, and one clear target for these was to clear out tabbed UI's, clear out split panel UI's as much as it is possible. Doing an exception for only one application wouldn't make sense in terms of UI consistency. Why could Call UI only do this and the other applications would not then do it. Sometimes overall UI consistency overrides the individual optimization you might want to do on some particular application.
"Just do the right thing" is something that it somewhat understandable from an outside perspective, because it allows the opinion holder to not care about the realities that were and are present for designing and implementing any feature within the device.
Hopefully nobody really thinks that the user would either select to buy this device or then leave it on the shop table would be dependent on whether there would be tabs on the missed calls list in the Call UI.
I'm personally a big fan of 37signals thinking in postings like these:
http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch05_Start_With_No.php
http://37signals.com/svn/archives/000805.php
The former talks essentially about saying no and shipping now vs. shipping in 2012 after saying yes too many times. The latter talks about "just do it" idealistic attitude of every feature you can think of vs. the reality of what saying yes to any feature actually means.
i.e. semirandom people calling you incompetent based on some design detail does not really encourage you to actively participate in these discussions. Just as an observation. Hopefully I won't get flamed for this also.
--
Then again, for the actual issue. There was no usable tab component available for the designer (in this case me) to consider. The UI style guidance was to try to simplify the UI's, and one clear target for these was to clear out tabbed UI's, clear out split panel UI's as much as it is possible. Doing an exception for only one application wouldn't make sense in terms of UI consistency. Why could Call UI only do this and the other applications would not then do it. Sometimes overall UI consistency overrides the individual optimization you might want to do on some particular application.
"Just do the right thing" is something that it somewhat understandable from an outside perspective, because it allows the opinion holder to not care about the realities that were and are present for designing and implementing any feature within the device.
Hopefully nobody really thinks that the user would either select to buy this device or then leave it on the shop table would be dependent on whether there would be tabs on the missed calls list in the Call UI.
I'm personally a big fan of 37signals thinking in postings like these:
http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch05_Start_With_No.php
http://37signals.com/svn/archives/000805.php
The former talks essentially about saying no and shipping now vs. shipping in 2012 after saying yes too many times. The latter talks about "just do it" idealistic attitude of every feature you can think of vs. the reality of what saying yes to any feature actually means.
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2009-10-28
, 11:03
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 747 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Kansas City, Missouri, USA
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#78
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When you try to say 'yes' to too many little features you get - Windows Vista.
Maybe I'm nuts, but seems a little more respect should be given to developers for the hard work they do to give us things like Maemo - both those paid by Nokia and especially the unpaid volunteers. Just too much 'I want...' goin' on, here and in other forums. I don't hear enough 'Please, could we get...' but there's plenty of 'If it doesn't have X I'm canceling!' and 'I'm sick of being ignored!' OSS is a privilege, not a right.
Sorry, I know this is getting OT.
Maybe I'm nuts, but seems a little more respect should be given to developers for the hard work they do to give us things like Maemo - both those paid by Nokia and especially the unpaid volunteers. Just too much 'I want...' goin' on, here and in other forums. I don't hear enough 'Please, could we get...' but there's plenty of 'If it doesn't have X I'm canceling!' and 'I'm sick of being ignored!' OSS is a privilege, not a right.
Sorry, I know this is getting OT.
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2009-10-28
, 11:38
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#79
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Originally Posted by Crashdamage
Actually, Vista was supposed to have a LOT of really good features (even a really good new filesystem to replace NTFS) but they were all dropped when they reboot the development of Longhorn back in 2004. No. When you dictate to customers the features they want, rather than actually listening to customers, you get Windows Vista. heh
When you try to say 'yes' to too many little features you get - Windows Vista.
Maybe I'm nuts, but seems a little more respect should be given to developers for the hard work they do to give us things like Maemo - both those paid by Nokia and especially the unpaid volunteers. Just too much 'I want...' goin' on, here and in other forums. I don't hear enough 'Please, could we get...' but there's plenty of 'If it doesn't have X I'm canceling!' and 'I'm sick of being ignored!' OSS is a privilege, not a right.
Sorry, I know this is getting OT.
If you want to argue that open source is a privilege and not a right. Keep in mind that purchases are a privilege as well--you don't have a right to money if the product doesn't deliver what customers are demanding--no matter how nicely or rudely they demand it, no matter how closed or open your software is made.
There's still great potential there. Take care of the customers and they will buy and remain faithful to your brand. Ignore them, and they will flock to someone that does. It's as simple as that. Respect is a two-way relationship. You'll find that you often get more respect when you deliver what someone needs or wants, despite how they ask for it, than if you take the 'say please' attitude with everyone. You might be surprised how many of those same people might be willing to donate money, time, code, ideas, etc. in their own way, despite their tact.
Last edited by danramos; 2009-10-28 at 11:46.
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2009-10-28
, 14:56
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#80
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Originally Posted by ragnar
...and I hope none of that has come from my posts. I do get genuinely irritated with what I perceive to be quirks (can't call them bugs) but I am not going to make that personal. My only issue with your responses per se, ragnar, is a stubborn refusal to even consider that there may be merit in the customer's input and feedback. IMO that contradicts the spirit of openness Maemo is trying to foster.
I guess if people would ask at the same time that why aren't more Nokians actively involved in these forums and at the same time would read the general tone and respect level of the individual messages, for instance in this particular thread, you would perhaps see some hints of the potential conflict built within.
i.e. semirandom people calling you incompetent based on some design detail does not really encourage you to actively participate in these discussions. Just as an observation. Hopefully I won't get flamed for this also.
However, let me just say I highly appreciate your participation... even though I disagree with the tone at times.
--
Then again, for the actual issue. There was no usable tab component available for the designer (in this case me) to consider. The UI style guidance was to try to simplify the UI's, and one clear target for these was to clear out tabbed UI's, clear out split panel UI's as much as it is possible. Doing an exception for only one application wouldn't make sense in terms of UI consistency. Why could Call UI only do this and the other applications would not then do it. Sometimes overall UI consistency overrides the individual optimization you might want to do on some particular application.
But I just want to make certain things clear:
1) Tabs in and of themselves are not a bad thing. They have tremendous value in certain contexts. One of those is in partitioning information so as to prevent "infinite" scrolling. I'm sure you know very well that tabs were originally implemented on websites to solve that very problem. So I don't understand an abject prejudice against them as a UI element. They're useful.
2) Tabs alone are not the issue and there is no reason to be so pedantic about them as if they were. The issue is allowing customers to segregate list items by state, something they already have the ability to do on numerous platforms, especially cell phones. Maemo is now taking that ability away without offering an equivalent functionality. People accustomed to filtering/sorting call history are not going to like that functionality arbitrarily going away.
3) Regarding all apps limited to the exact same UI elements: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Just do the right thing" is something that it somewhat understandable from an outside perspective, because it allows the opinion holder to not care about the realities that were and are present for designing and implementing any feature within the device.
Hopefully nobody really thinks that the user would either select to buy this device or then leave it on the shop table would be dependent on whether there would be tabs on the missed calls list in the Call UI.
I'm personally a big fan of 37signals thinking in postings like these:
http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ch05_Start_With_No.php
http://37signals.com/svn/archives/000805.php
The former talks essentially about saying no and shipping now vs. shipping in 2012 after saying yes too many times. The latter talks about "just do it" idealistic attitude of every feature you can think of vs. the reality of what saying yes to any feature actually means.
And please take the "asking for every feature" meme off the table.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2009-10-30 at 05:40.
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Though this place is a bit low on sanity tonight... sharks?
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Last edited by RevdKathy; 2009-10-28 at 03:42.