Are we all on the same page about what "community discussions" means?

There are a number of things it could mean:

1. A talking shop where everyone gathers
2. A workplace where anyone can look in & see what people are working on
3. A forum for interacting with Nokia
4. A forum for interacting with the council & maemo.org staff

These are all very different - for example, if you use a forum as the primary contact point for interacting with Nokia, I would question how effective that'll be. If you want a place where anyone can trace what people are working on & ask questions if they're not getting enough information, or join in if they have the time, energy & ability, then the mailing list is that. If you want a talking shop, then there will always be people who opt out, regardless of whether it's IRC, a mailing list or a forum. And if it's a place for the entire community (by the way, is there anyplace where I can find the entire Maemo community???) to interact with the council & the staff, again, I'd question how effective that would be, especially since people appear to have issues with both the high volume and low SNR on forum threads.

So - penguinbait, if I may, what activities *exactly* do you want to see happen in the community forum? Some illustrative examples might help.

Thanks!
Dave.

Good points Dave, and it's sort of a side topic but you make me wonder... is it worthwhile to create a subforum here just for the council? I'd love to see a "Ask the Council" sort of subforum, maybe even under Community.

A lot of the noise people complain about here is due to catch-all talk sections...

The only question I have about everything you said is:

How is a mailing list any more of everything you just said than a forum? They provide an area that you can easily trace (as long as they aren't purged.. which is the same for archives of a mailing list) what people are doing/have done, ask questions, and join in any time...

In fact.. I think forums are a little better in that case just because in a mailing list - you either have to go through the entire history (or just the thread you're interested in) that is on the web anyway.. or you just get whatever quotes were included in the reply emails since you sign up.

Take me for example.. didn't even know it (-community) was there. I don't like mailing lists.. but if it came down to using that as the official resource I'd sign up... but just by signing up I don't automatically know or get an announcement of every important discussion ever made on that mailing list... I have to go back through the archives.

Exact same thing on the forum, except its the same interface to go through the "archives" as it is to actively post on new ones. You just sign up for the forum and look through the "community" section.

So far.. the only benefit I can see to a mailing list over a forum, logically (personal bias aside), is that replying to threads is simplified if all you have to do is reply to an email. That part of it is just easier.

Some people prefer Mailing lists, which is fine - others prefer forums - which is also fine. I also don't mind if both exist.. TBH. I believe people SHOULD have a choice. But, what I do think... is there should be an "official" channel.. and if you choose not to participate in the "official" method - you are making the conscious choice to not be heard by most people.

fatalsaint, if this forum had a threaded view option, it would solve a lot of the issues brought up by citizens of the Mailing List World.

I guess that's where I'm confused... "threads" in a mailing list are the same thing as a "topic" on a forum - are they not?

What exactly makes the "threads" easier to follow than "topics"?

It all depends on the email format and reader... but you raise a valid point. AFAIK most of the email favoring crowd prefer raw text, ie with ZERO formatting... I call that worse than a forum.

And at least here I don't get flamed for "top quoting"

As far as I'm aware, most people view Bulletin boards in 'flat view' which basically puts everyone's post in timestamp order, regardless of who they're replying to. (I never met anyone who used 'threaded' even where it was available.)

Threaded view means that instead of using 'quick reply' the user has to specify to whom they are replying. Then the replies are 'threaded' under the post they are replying to.

There are two problems with enabling this: one is that I'm not sure whether vBulletin even has that option any more. The other is that 99.9% of posters will reply using the 'quick reply' box, so the answers don't get threaded anyway. (And if you want to reply to someone specifically, you use the quote function instead, as I just did. )

FYI, the forum actually has a threaded view feature but it's turned off. It can be turned on but you would have to select the post you are replying to, when doing a quick reply. This forces the replies to be built-up as a tree.

EDIT: yipes, RevdKathy explained this already above...

Here's the question that was bumbling through my head while I was supposed to be working this afternoon: how do you select/collate/send the useful material from t.m.o to the mailing list, and vice versa while filtering out duplication and 'noise'?

And I think I got as far as concluding that technology can't do it. Try as we might, we can't (yet) create software that can tell Orange Box from Fatalsaint. We can spot a 'bot' at 20 paces, and eliminate them before they post. We can even pick out most spammers pretty quickly (judging by the numbers that get through I'm assuming we catch far more in the net).

But technology can't tell signal from noise in post content - even if you created an algorithm to eliminate all posts containing the words 'iphone', 'sucks' or 'fail'. For that, oddly, the best tool is still the human brain. Funny old thing, but still capable of exercises in judgement and distilling of content that defeat our wonder-machines.

So, here's a proposal: we appoint a 'minute taker' - or better still several, for both the mailing list and the forum. They divvy up the content - possibly by topic, and post regular 'minutes' to each medium.

So... to illustrate: the minute taker is tasked with cross-posting content on, say, this month's sprint.

Every few days they post to the forum:

The they'd update the mailing list

It would be a big job for a few people. One could insist that the person starting the topic keep the minutes, but that would require that everyone have both media enabled. But we have of shortage of good people around, including a few looking for ways to contribute.

I would GLADLY take the time to do so.