Yes.
Still, some people who don't have enough money, would buy them and this means more people who develop apps for the platform.

More apps for the platform means more apps for Nokia devices, too.

More apps for Nokia devices mean more sales for Nokia.

This is that simple.

Hey, everyone knows all the real serious discussion happened in IRC...

They don't do that, learned their lesson. What they do is wait until it's almost done, the device is finished, entered final stages, then the whole TP roll of open bugs that are now "new" or targeted for 1.3 will be mass-moved to target: meego or the next one after that, 1.01 or whatever.

This happened with previous releases of M5 versions, we all got new bugs or fixed or patched and we imagined we'll be getting them. Just before 1.1 rolled, most were moved forward, either explicitly or by inactivity to 1.2. Once 1.2 was taking shape, they were implicitly pushed forward for at least 1.3.

That's not what brings me down, though. What brings me down is that someone, somewhere filters bugs and enhancements by their own silly rules. What brings me down is that cosmetic mishaps got fixed in the next update while most voted bugs, brainstorms, real problems and old, old, 3-digit bugs are still pushed for "later".

Might just be me. We have fixed that darned MicroB losing the first keystroke, but we still don't have labels for phone numbers, knowing that we have custom labels for IM. It's not like it would require a major rewrite. Know what, just read the labels from file, we'll write an editor.

There are already replacements for birthdays, call log, SMS viewer, chat, wifi, you name it. If the original was just fine, why do they even exist?

It's not that they're closed source. Other OSs are COMPLETELY closed and have more flexibility that M5. It's that the software isn't scalable, documented, built for extension. Whoever thinks up there enforcing UI specs is more important than providing a feature should be relocated to Apple. In the middle of the night.

I went through this whole thread. Where's Nokia voice here?

They've all moved on to MeeGo.

A longterm contributor and previous community voice and council member starting this kind of thread, just makes me sad and feel sorry for Nokia. Hope they listen this time and change their culture.

fwiw there is a parallel thread with many overlaps in this Community forum: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55898

I have put hours in the last days commenting to it, specially to texrat's post referenced here, and to other related threads.

Let me add a comment to the mix. Let me know whether this goes off the tracks or you also thin"kthat it is related.

This situation now somehow reminds the jump last year between the Internet tablets and a Maemo device with telephony and therefore a structural change for the community. There was people loving the change and people resistent for the change since this step towards mainstream audiences could imply a loss of something.

Now the jump to MeeGo puts the community in a similar situation: even if having a multivendor setting about the OS was something requested by many in the past, the actual implementation of this at meego.com brings structural changes to the community. Some like the change more than others.

But, like with telephony, the change happens and at the end only a few can still argue that it was not a good decision. And I believe will think along the same lines the day most of you will be running MeeGo or MeeGo-Harmattan in your device (the N900 or something else).

I think the mood of some Maemo contributors will change when MeeGo Handset UX and MeeGo-Harmattan can be seen and booted in their N900s. It's one of those things that you need to see to believe, and before some of you see it the tone of the discussion is biased by this untrust.

Nokia is changing its culture and more, being Maemo and now MeeGo a center piece of this change. In the software development side, MeeGo is now an open platform for multiple device categories and vendors. In the business development side Nokia is pushing MeeGo devices to the high end and the mainstream market.

Maybe the depth of these changes is not visible to you now but I bet it will become clear when you see MeeGo and MeeGo-Harmattan in your hands, and you see how Nokia is pushing this to the market, together with the Qt developer offering.

Quim, telephony added a new wrinkle for sure but it wasn't enough to provoke what you're hearing from people now. I'll sound like a broken record but I see these concerns in summary:

- Nokia's willingness to burn early adopters
- MeeGo leaning far more corporate than community

The first point has eroded so much goodwill that you have former hardcore devotees like GeneralAntilles now sounding hopeless. I'm not sure that development is being given the proper thought. It's profound, and painful to read. When he says he came back from San Francisco more discouraged, that's troublesome.

I'm using GA for an example because he's an icon here, one who fiercely defended Nokia the first couple of times we went through rough transitions. If he's losing motivation then anyone can and will.

This community has pushed hard for openness and I know that in philosophy you are on our side. But it feels like with MeeGo all of the hard lessons learned don't count, that the expertise many of us can bring to the table is summarily dismissed with little consideration.

Nokia (and Intel) really need to realize that most of us have been working our butts off for free, for love of community and the potential that Maemo devices introduced. Some of us put in so many hours it's like a second job. But I don't think that anyone expects any compensation other than a willingness by our corporate (dare I say) partners to LISTEN to us. Really, REALLY listen when we caution that serious mistakes have been and continue to be made.

I think I can safely speak for every contributing community member when I say we desperately want Maemo-cum-MeeGo to succeed. I can't emphasize that enough. We do NOT want the Apple business model to emerge predominant. We do NOT want the Internet to be carved into walled gardens. And we have believed in Nokia as one of the main corporations that can keep the communication infrastructure open. So we're frustrated and disappointed every time Nokia acts like just another shortsighted quarter-by-quarter company.

Maybe we've pinned too much on Nokia in that regard. But this ecosystem is the one we chose to work and play in. If Nokia (and Intel) can't make this sort of venture work, where do we go?

Sorry for being long-winded.

Highlights from this thread:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=21 (gazza_d)
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=24 (flareup)
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=38 (qwerty12)
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=45 (ndi)