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kate is offline kate
2012-06-18 , 08:22
Posts: 35 | Thanked: 246 times | Joined on Feb 2009
#71
There is place for some clarification. Decisions made last Thursday were Nokia highest management decisions. The final impacts and the schedule of these impacts are simply just not known yet.

Everything is depending decision chain from upper management to down ones responsible implementing them. So, we can't yet say that "maemo.org" will be financed by Nokia by n-months because we don't know it and our boss may not know it

You can expect that Nokia is no longer willing to invest as much money to community as it did before.

We ( I and Quim ) do our best to get as good deal to maemo-org and Qt community as possible but outcome is limited budget frame to be given us by out managers.

I hope that we can get solution where community could keep maintaining maemo.org in case Nokia is no longer willing to finance it. Issue that I don't yet know is that how much and how long Nokia will finance maemo.org.

I hope that everyone understands that we are on same side, community and all Nokia employees that have been working with Maemo/MeeGo/Qt.

I feel that situation is very sad, I have made about all of my career with OSS .
Kate
 

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Bernard is offline Bernard
2012-06-18 , 09:07
Posts: 468 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Jun 2006
#72
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
One request to deaf ears and that is the release in full of the Maemo source code/OS to this community... once again.
We don't need the full source code of all parts of Maemo/MeeGo to continue the support for the Nokia devices. But if Nokia discontinues the distribution of certain files, we can't officially support the devices anymore. We are not legally allowed to redistribute the firmware images for example, so only users that already downloaded the files could reinstall.
The same with the Scratchbox SDK. When setting up a new development environment you download binary packages from a nokia server that we are not allowed to redistribute.
This is probably also the case with the QtSDK. I don't think we are allowed to redistribute all the files related to Maemo/MeeGo (the emulator images and some simulator files probably).
If Nokia stops the distribution of these items, it would make the development of new applications harder.
But there are probably a lot more issues when trying to split Maemo.org from Nokia.
 

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sulu is offline sulu
2012-06-18 , 09:28
Posts: 915 | Thanked: 3,209 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Germany
#73
Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
But there are probably a lot more issues when trying to split Maemo.org from Nokia.
For sure!
But the legal situation concerning the proprietary blobs is the most pressing one.
I'm pretty sure we can technically switch to another place within a week if the existence of this platform is at stake. But without having solved the legal issue of redistributing the blobs this platform and everything that depends on it is dead in terms of development.

So @qgil (or anybody who is close enough to Nokia to make a halfway educated guess):
Who will be in charge of hosting and distributing the blobs, and under which legal terms will this happen?
 

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kate is offline kate
2012-06-18 , 09:53
Posts: 35 | Thanked: 246 times | Joined on Feb 2009
#74
Originally Posted by sulu View Post
For sure!
But the legal situation concerning the proprietary blobs is the most pressing one.
I'm pretty sure we can technically switch to another place within a week if the existence of this platform is at stake. But without having solved the legal issue of redistributing the blobs this platform and everything that depends on it is dead in terms of development.

So @qgil (or anybody who is close enough to Nokia to make a halfway educated guess):
Who will be in charge of hosting and distributing the blobs, and under which legal terms will this happen?
Maintaining developer.nokia.com site is different issue than maintaining independent community sites, so developer.nokia.com is obvious place for Nokia proprietary stuff.

If we end up solution where community maintains maemo.org we should also check what stuff need to be moved to developer.nokia.com . I am not lawyer but If I rightly remember, least some 3rd party stuff that are part of these images has some distribution limitations.

Kate

Kate
 

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pelago is offline pelago
2012-06-18 , 10:03
Posts: 2,121 | Thanked: 1,540 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ Oxford, UK
#75
I recall reading somewhere on one of the previous threads regarding what to do about the future of maemo.org is that some subdomains were used by some internal Nokia processes. I guess that part at least won't be an issue in the future, so won't stand in the way of moving to maemoommunity.org or similar.
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2012-06-18 , 10:05
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#76
Now at last we seem to be getting some straight talk which is all i ever wanted instead of round the houses.

Thanks Kate for some clarification you actually make more sense in a few words than your partner ever did in my opinion so i wish dearly you can keep up with this and give everyone your much needed guidance and help.
 
mikhas is offline mikhas
2012-06-18 , 10:10
Posts: 148 | Thanked: 199 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#77
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
but overall i actually admire a lot of the work he has done.
*sigh*, If only one could say the same about you … hey, I got an idea: why don't *you* become productive for once, and set up a new site for this community?
 

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misiak is offline misiak
2012-06-18 , 10:18
Posts: 805 | Thanked: 1,605 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gdynia, Poland
#78
Originally Posted by pelago View Post
I recall reading somewhere on one of the previous threads regarding what to do about the future of maemo.org is that some subdomains were used by some internal Nokia processes. I guess that part at least won't be an issue in the future, so won't stand in the way of moving to maemoommunity.org or similar.
If you're speaking about processes on devices itself, we could use resolv.conf or some other hack to redirect maemo.org to new server, so that's not a problem. But anyway, good to know that such issue may occur
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2012-06-18 , 10:25
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#79
Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
We don't need the full source code of all parts of Maemo/MeeGo to continue the support for the Nokia devices. But if Nokia discontinues the distribution of certain files, we can't officially support the devices anymore. We are not legally allowed to redistribute the firmware images for example, so only users that already downloaded the files could reinstall.
The same with the Scratchbox SDK. When setting up a new development environment you download binary packages from a nokia server that we are not allowed to redistribute.
This is probably also the case with the QtSDK. I don't think we are allowed to redistribute all the files related to Maemo/MeeGo (the emulator images and some simulator files probably).
If Nokia stops the distribution of these items, it would make the development of new applications harder.
But there are probably a lot more issues when trying to split Maemo.org from Nokia.
OK i want to address this.

First of all Bernard please forgive me but i do not actually know who you are or your position.

I have never liked 3rd party for obvious reasons as it always makes huge problems legally and the very reason very little was or could be released from Nokia regarding Maemo.

Is there any way forward for some serious negotiations with Nokia regarding all the files you require to enable future support or is it that abysmal that it is all tied up with 3rd party crap?.

Is Nokia going to disappear into the world of Microsoft and leave you Maemo and everything else in the lurch? ir is there any way forward on this?.

Kate seems an angel right now because if ever a crucial time it is with us right now as we debate this, get in where it is needed with the help of Kate?.

All i will say is i have never agreed with the way Nokia have done business and certainly from the support factor as they were very bleak on this front, now i don't know if they used outside engineering or in house but i would suspect by what i have ever learned on here that it is outside and the reason everything seems so difficult right from the start.

I don't like vague and round the houses talk as i have always been a on the ball let us get to where we need to get too as fast as feasibly possible cutting out the wish wash etc.

Nokia have never ever been straight and to the point and i feel now if something is not done in the right direction that Maemo and all the files you require with permissions are not got then they will all die a sudden death and that would be so sad for this community.

For all we know Nokia could very well be gone in a short while so what happens to everything they have created and the much needed support factors?.

If this all boils down to legalities and there is no one prepared to get this mess sorted out then we will all end up with zero so my question is simple.... what can be done?.

Am not interested in what will happen to Maemo.org as that is in capable hands so no worries there but the support side and any kind of Maemo/Meego progression has always been my interest.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2012-06-18 at 10:35.
 
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tekojo is offline tekojo
2012-06-18 , 10:49
Posts: 148 | Thanked: 484 times | Joined on Nov 2008
#80
Originally Posted by kate View Post
Maintaining developer.nokia.com site is different issue than maintaining independent community sites, so developer.nokia.com is obvious place for Nokia proprietary stuff.

If we end up solution where community maintains maemo.org we should also check what stuff need to be moved to developer.nokia.com . I am not lawyer but If I rightly remember, least some 3rd party stuff that are part of these images has some distribution limitations.

Kate

Kate
tabletsdev is the only area which has material that is under licences (Nokia and third party), and it has the necessary checks in place to fullfill the requirements for distributing those pieces of software. So look there to see what needs to be moved.

Aside from that, the thing that most people here don't seem to grasp is the size of maemo.org. The forums are one small part of it all. The big parts are the old autobuilder, the new OBS, the repositories and the content delivery network. Those keep the show running for the devices out there.

If you recall the N900 has Extras as an official repository. That means that every single day, every single network connected N900 pings the repository (the content delivery network in the middle takes the load) and checks if something has changed.

While the forums are certainly helpful and entertaining, the real beef is in the software distribution tools that are part of maemo.org.
 

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