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2008-07-12
, 01:31
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Posts: 71 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Lee's Summit, MO, USA
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#792
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Well, how do people mount network filesystems?
This one has been addressed several time before. How, exactly, do you expect to mount one filesystem in two places (note, there's a requirement that the filesystem you use be able to work well with mtd devices).
I doubt it is a giant technical hurdle, but people aren't screaming about it because it's no biggie either.
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2008-07-12
, 01:33
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#793
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
See, but that's different. There are a thousand and one ways to transfer files easily between the tablet and a computer using either Wifi, Bluetooth, usbnet or, heck, serial. What he asked for was a way to interact with the filesystem, which implies mounting it directly, and you definitely can't mount jffs2 in two places.
Ah, this is where it pays to be an optimist. Who says in order to interact remotely with a filesystem it has to be mounted? Certainly an SSH session and an FTP session is filesystem interaction and neither requires remotely mounting the host's drive. The only requirement in these cases are cleverly implemented servers on the host.
It has nothing do to with optimism and everything to do with technical accuracy.
If his question had been "how can I transfer files between the tablet and my computer with usbnet", then I might've answered differently, but that wasn't his question.
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2008-07-12
, 01:54
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#794
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Oh please spare me. If you want to be a pedant, then the modification of files and their locations is included in the definition of filesystem interaction. SSH, telnet, and potentially Samba extend this definition greatly.
See, but that's different. There are a thousand and one ways to transfer files easily between the tablet and a computer using either Wifi, Bluetooth, usbnet or, heck, serial. What he asked for was a way to interact with the filesystem, which implies mounting it directly, and you definitely can't mount jffs2 in two places.
It has nothing do to with optimism and everything to do with technical accuracy.
If his question had been "how can I transfer files between the tablet and my computer with usbnet", then I might've answered differently, but that wasn't his question.
It does have *something* to do with optimism. An optimistic individual is much more likely (in my experience) to find a solution, even against the odds, while a pessimistic individual perpetually dooms himself to stagnation.
}:^)~
YARR!
Sincerly, Capt'n
Last edited by Capt'n Corrupt; 2008-07-12 at 01:58.
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2008-07-12
, 09:10
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Posts: 2,102 |
Thanked: 1,309 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#795
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This one has been addressed several time before. How, exactly, do you expect to mount one filesystem in two places (note, there's a requirement that the filesystem you use be able to work well with mtd devices).Oh, and the ability to use and interact with the file systems while plugged in via USB.
There is a fundamental limitation with trying to masquerade as a block device, while something else is also using the device, so then you can't fool it into thinking the cards are mounted but also accessible on the IT. So then you're back to using file transfer over some network connection.
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2008-07-12
, 14:58
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#796
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Originally Posted by lardman
Well, there you go! A gadget-ethernet connection is an excellent idea that would likely be useful to many that desire only to push files around and/or modify their contents rather than mounting as a mass-storage device (which is what I assume is happening currently). I believe SSHFS and SFTP do not require a network connection, merely a data stream, so even if it wasn't ethernet, an ultra-simple protocol could be devised for this operation via USB (perhaps one already exists?).
I've got to second the General on this one, how do you expect to do this? You can certainly do it while not plugged in by using a graphical sftp client or a sshfs mount, but if you specifically want to plug in, you'll either be wanting to mount the devices directly on the PC (as happens atm) or start up a gadget-ethernet connection and then do the same as you would over wifi?
In this case, you're not directly modifying the structure of the FS from the remote PC, but indirectly doing so through the aide of a intermediary host driver or server or both.
I don't think mounting is the only requirement for filesystem interaction. It is required to change the structure of information on the physical drive; a task that is handled exclusively by kernel drivers. Even a user-space shell must go through the driver to write anything to the media. The ideas above operate in a similar fashion but only a little farther removed.
}:^)~
YARR!
General Corrupt
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2008-07-12
, 16:28
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Posts: 121 |
Thanked: 53 times |
Joined on Aug 2006
@ Alexandria, VA, USA
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#797
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(Disclaimer: I haven't read all of the 750 previous responses.)
I want the N900 to be a single-box, walking around solution for media and navigation. That's the way I use my N800. I think the general public would buy something like that.
I bought my N800 to use as a media device. I put two 16B SD cards in it with all of my music on them. Then I gave my 30GB generation 5.5 iPod to my sister. I chose the N800 over the N810 because of the two SDHC slots. This week, I replaced one of the cards with a 32GB card, moving alll music to it. Canola is the killer app for this purpose.
I also chose the N800 over the N810 because I already had a BT GPS receiver. Maemo Mapper is the killer app here.
But then I started using the N800 for e-mail. In the three or four months I've had it, I've used it more often for e-mail than my other computers. I revert to my laptop when I have to view MS Office attachments, but that's about it. The N800 would rock for e-mail if it had a great, slide out thumb board.
But wait! I found that it can do video + voice over IP. I started using it for VTCs at work. People at work were impressed enough to buy three N810s for that purpose.
The only disappointment about the N800 software is that there isn't a reliable UPnP controller program.
I don't want a phone in the tablet because I want the freedom to choose any provider. I'll use BT PAN or DUN to tether to the phone if I want to pay for a data plan.
So I see the N900 keeping the GPS, camera, and keyboard of the N810 and getting two SDHC slots. The builtin apps will include Canola, Maemo Mapper, modest/tiny mail, a single chat client that joins gtalk and pidgin, MS Word and Excel viewers, and UPnP controller.
Dave
I want the N900 to be a single-box, walking around solution for media and navigation. That's the way I use my N800. I think the general public would buy something like that.
I bought my N800 to use as a media device. I put two 16B SD cards in it with all of my music on them. Then I gave my 30GB generation 5.5 iPod to my sister. I chose the N800 over the N810 because of the two SDHC slots. This week, I replaced one of the cards with a 32GB card, moving alll music to it. Canola is the killer app for this purpose.
I also chose the N800 over the N810 because I already had a BT GPS receiver. Maemo Mapper is the killer app here.
But then I started using the N800 for e-mail. In the three or four months I've had it, I've used it more often for e-mail than my other computers. I revert to my laptop when I have to view MS Office attachments, but that's about it. The N800 would rock for e-mail if it had a great, slide out thumb board.
But wait! I found that it can do video + voice over IP. I started using it for VTCs at work. People at work were impressed enough to buy three N810s for that purpose.
The only disappointment about the N800 software is that there isn't a reliable UPnP controller program.
I don't want a phone in the tablet because I want the freedom to choose any provider. I'll use BT PAN or DUN to tether to the phone if I want to pay for a data plan.
So I see the N900 keeping the GPS, camera, and keyboard of the N810 and getting two SDHC slots. The builtin apps will include Canola, Maemo Mapper, modest/tiny mail, a single chat client that joins gtalk and pidgin, MS Word and Excel viewers, and UPnP controller.
Dave
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2008-07-12
, 18:26
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Posts: 2,102 |
Thanked: 1,309 times |
Joined on Sep 2006
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#798
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Well, there you go! A gadget-ethernet connection is an excellent idea that would likely be useful to many that desire only to push files around and/or modify their contents rather than mounting as a mass-storage device (which is what I assume is happening currently). I believe SSHFS and SFTP do not require a network connection, merely a data stream, so even if it wasn't ethernet, an ultra-simple protocol could be devised for this operation via USB (perhaps one already exists?).
It's certainly possible to devise other Gadget drivers and protocols, it simply won't happen unless there is a need (i.e. you'll have to do it yourself).
The good thing about mounting as a mass-storage device or an ethernet-gadget device is that these are generally supported out-of-the-box (with the exception of Windows, which doesn't recognise it due to being crap, and therefore needs to be told why it's wrong with linux.inf).
These work, I doubt anyone will replace them unless there is a truely compelling reason. As I said earlier, I just fire up wifi and then use ssh/sftp. I really can't see what the problem is
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2008-07-12
, 21:05
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#799
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Argument drift?
There really is no problem. I was originally proposing the feasibility of file mod via USB and without 'remote' mounting. But, I agree with your points. WiFi SSH/SFTP is sufficient as is USB mass storage.
I *do* however like the idea of plugging in the tablet and having the option of modifying files without having the main fs unmounted by the host. Subtle features like these (in aggregate) greatly improve the usability of the device and make it that much more appealing to the masses, although not necessarily so to the tech-heads.
Imagine what a difference package management (for example) has on N810 adoption. How different would the tablet popularity be if all apps had to be compiled?
Simplicity counts. Usability counts.
This is one area that apple (and even MS) get it right. Users don't need to know much about hardware, software, or configuration to quickly and effectively use their products. For example, the iPhone app store has pictures, ratings, and descriptions of apps all in one easy to access location. The pictures alone make choosing and installing a far more friendly experience. You can even do this from your desktop.
In all fairness, I see tablet software tending in a similar direction: memo already seems very easy to use, Diablo has its non-destructive firmware upgrades, one click installs exist, etc. This is a good thing. Some community apps (canola, and carman) also hit it spot on.
I would like to see even more slickness, so that my girlfriend can not only pick up the tablet and start using it, but will also rave about the experience. The best part is, all of this is possible in software.
}:^)~
YARR!
Oh Capt'n
There really is no problem. I was originally proposing the feasibility of file mod via USB and without 'remote' mounting. But, I agree with your points. WiFi SSH/SFTP is sufficient as is USB mass storage.
I *do* however like the idea of plugging in the tablet and having the option of modifying files without having the main fs unmounted by the host. Subtle features like these (in aggregate) greatly improve the usability of the device and make it that much more appealing to the masses, although not necessarily so to the tech-heads.
Imagine what a difference package management (for example) has on N810 adoption. How different would the tablet popularity be if all apps had to be compiled?
Simplicity counts. Usability counts.
This is one area that apple (and even MS) get it right. Users don't need to know much about hardware, software, or configuration to quickly and effectively use their products. For example, the iPhone app store has pictures, ratings, and descriptions of apps all in one easy to access location. The pictures alone make choosing and installing a far more friendly experience. You can even do this from your desktop.
In all fairness, I see tablet software tending in a similar direction: memo already seems very easy to use, Diablo has its non-destructive firmware upgrades, one click installs exist, etc. This is a good thing. Some community apps (canola, and carman) also hit it spot on.
I would like to see even more slickness, so that my girlfriend can not only pick up the tablet and start using it, but will also rave about the experience. The best part is, all of this is possible in software.
}:^)~
YARR!
Oh Capt'n
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2008-07-12
, 21:12
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#800
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@talmage,
That was a great list. What exactly are VTCs?
I know this is not original, but I would like to see Canola packaged with the N9xx. From what I've seen, its full featured, extensible (via plugins), and very, very, slick.
Does RTCOMM support the bluetooth headset ring event? For example, will my paired BT headset *ring* when I receive a SIP call? If not, then I'd like to see this supported as well.
}:^)~
YARR!
Going for a Napt'n
That was a great list. What exactly are VTCs?
I know this is not original, but I would like to see Canola packaged with the N9xx. From what I've seen, its full featured, extensible (via plugins), and very, very, slick.
Does RTCOMM support the bluetooth headset ring event? For example, will my paired BT headset *ring* when I receive a SIP call? If not, then I'd like to see this supported as well.
}:^)~
YARR!
Going for a Napt'n
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| Tags |
| dpads are fun, ideas, n900, n900 wishlist, revenge of the styli, stuff for nokia to read, the wrath of sty, wishlist |
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Good one, [edit]Mutiny32[/edit], this would be a killer feature of the N900 OS, especially if there was a fancy-schmancy GUI interface for dragging files back and fourth.
}:^)~
YARR!
The Benevolent Corrupt
Last edited by Capt'n Corrupt; 2008-07-12 at 02:08.