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RobbieThe1st	2011-07-04 , 22:57
Posts: 842 \| Thanked: 1,197 times \| Joined on May 2010	#801

Originally Posted by x-lette

There are several situations when I want my device to really shut down. Some software is said to be not fully installing when not powering off and on device. Something with cache or bootstate or whatever. Don't know. Funnily enough, my device oftne powers off even when I want to restart. This also happens from time to time when rebooting from backupmenu. But not reliable.

Pure FUD, I'm thinking. So long as you're doing a proper restart(which actually *does* turn it off, then power it back up - Likely on a timer), it should solve the problem.
Upgrading the kernel's just about the only thing that needs a reboot, and a reboot *will* do it.

That being said, I'm not entirely against it, I'm just saying.

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	Estel	2011-07-04 , 23:20
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#802

Even such a simple thing as blacklisting faulty module need rebooting (although I admit that it doesn't need powering off/on and AFAIK nothing require that). modprobe -r used on certain modules (bq27x00) can cause watchdog to reboot device anyway in few minutes, in less desireable moment - just as side note.

Personally, i wanted to turn device off via bootmenu few times, when I realized that my battery is too low to do safe backup or restore. Then, I change battery to fresh one - that obviously require powering off, at least until I finish my hotswap-easy-now (

) mod.

Also, many times I do backups before going to sleep, after testing some new things. Then, I need to restart N900, wait for initial boot completion, type full-lenght lock code, type (or cancel) PIN, wait for boot to finish, just to turn device off as I do for night. PITA.

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RobbieThe1st	2011-07-04 , 23:53
Posts: 842 \| Thanked: 1,197 times \| Joined on May 2010	#803

Originally Posted by Estel

More choice dont hurt, if it's not hard to code for You

Anyway, question - we have option to delete content of optfs WITHOUT restoration (probably less useful thing that powering off device, still, it is here - but it's not topic of my question ) - in new version, it' also done via formatting optfs to clear any errors, or just by delete, like in old versions?

Just by delete. Restoring will format it, though.
I figure this feature's mainly a test feature; if you just want to format it, I'd hook it up via USB and do it that way... or use the console.

Originally Posted by Estel

Also, many times I do backups before going to sleep, after testing some new things. Then, I need to restart N900, wait for initial boot completion, type full-lenght lock code, type (or cancel) PIN, wait for boot to finish, just to turn device off as I do for night. PITA.

You mean you leave it *off* at night? Um... may I ask why?
If you just set it to airplane mode, it uses a neglegable amount of power(literally, the voltage goes *up* slightly over those off hours), and then it's on and ready in the morning.

Last edited by RobbieThe1st; 2011-07-05 at 06:44.

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	Estel	2011-07-05 , 19:48
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#804

Originally Posted by RobbieThe1st

Just by delete. Restoring will format it, though.
I figure this feature's mainly a test feature; if you just want to format it, I'd hook it up via USB and do it that way... or use the console.

Personally, I preffer to have my N900 as independtant of other devices, as it is possible. Don't get me wrong - I'm not "demanding" anything, I'm already very thankful for work You've done so far - but, as we agreed that recreating is better way than deleting, can't this option also be adjusted to new way of nuke'ing optfs? I can't see any rationale for keeping it old way.

You mean you leave it *off* at night? Um... may I ask why?
If you just set it to airplane mode, it uses a neglegable amount of power(literally, the voltage goes *up* slightly over those off hours), and then it's on and ready in the morning.

Yes, I keep it off all night - because in other topic, we already confirmed that turning off and booting again (obviously) eats MUCH less battery (real, not bme faulty readings) than offline mode. Powersaving cqapability of standby mode is pure FUD, but don't worry - It seems that everyone have a FUD to belive, no matter hot experienced we are

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RobbieThe1st	2011-07-05 , 23:51
Posts: 842 \| Thanked: 1,197 times \| Joined on May 2010	#805

I think you're assuming a lot here.
First, through personal experience I can tell you that the cpu does 'pause' for a signifigant fraction of each second(powertop will show that) when nothing's using it. Once you turn off the high-drain devices - wifi, modem and the screen - the N900's actually *very* good at saving power.
That being said, if an application goes crazy(hildon-home does this occasionally), the battery can drain in 4-6 hours. Also, if you *are* losing signifigant amounts of battery life in "idle" mode, look at your widgets: Poorly written widgets can easily half your battery life.

That isn't to say that rebooting takes lots of power - It does take some, though not nearly as much as BME would have you think.

Personally, though, when leaving the device on in idle mode takes less power than 10 minutes of use(as reported by batteryeye), I don't consider it worth the hassle of having to boot it each morning - Having it instant-on is *extremely* nice.

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Mentalist Traceur	2011-07-06 , 00:58
Posts: 2,225 \| Thanked: 3,822 times \| Joined on Jun 2010 @ Florida	#806

Estel: I couldn't agree more with the N900-being-self-sufficient concept.

Now, as for power - I don't power down my phone - but I also charge have a VERY strong opinion that I should be reachable even in the middle of the night by those who might need to. I find that on nights that I don't charge my N900 though, it lasts rather well. I.E. not-noticeable-energy-drain.

Now, I have no doubt that the N900 would save slightly more energy being off, but without too much stuff running in the background it's not a gain that's important enough for me.

But meh, personal preference.

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	debernardis	2011-07-06 , 06:16
	Posts: 2,142 \| Thanked: 2,054 times \| Joined on Dec 2006 @ Sicily	#807

So, if I understand well, when restoring optfs, we get formatting before, right?
Sounds good to me.
Robbiethe1st, do we see the exit state of the format step so that we rest assured that everything's allright?

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RobbieThe1st	2011-07-06 , 11:46
Posts: 842 \| Thanked: 1,197 times \| Joined on May 2010	#808

Originally Posted by debernardis

So, if I understand well, when restoring optfs, we get formatting before, right?
Sounds good to me.
Robbiethe1st, do we see the exit state of the format step so that we rest assured that everything's allright?

Yea, like most anything here, if the exit state's not 0, it'll show an error and "press any key to continue".

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	Estel	2011-07-06 , 19:06
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#809

I agree, that this is totally up to personal prefferences, So, as I understand it, option to safetly turn off device (regardless of mass storage mode, etc) won't hurt anyone, but can help many (or some), right?

Also, what is developer werdict, about optfs deleting by formatting/recreating? Is there any rationale to keep it the way it is now?

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RobbieThe1st	2011-07-06 , 23:09
Posts: 842 \| Thanked: 1,197 times \| Joined on May 2010	#810

It's a matter of "when I get around to it", and assuming I can get the poweroff command to work /correctly/.
Right now I care more about a on-device terminal than about the above things...