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qgil is offline qgil
2010-12-08 , 23:41
Posts: 3,105 | Thanked: 11,088 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Mountain View (CA, USA)
#81
Originally Posted by lardman View Post
Well yes I agree that there are projects that will be part of the vanilla Meego release that we could (and thinking about it, really should) contribute to, but it's unclear how long it will be before there's a day-to-day usable N900 image (no disrespect to Stskeeps and the rest of the meego-arm gang, I know how hard it is to get these things working and am sorry I don't have the time to get involved)
Let me be more clear: if a Qt based popular and established community project like Amarok is planning/working on going mobile (they are) then a possibility for developers willing to have a great free media player for Maemo 5 is to get in touch and exchange expertise areas. Using Qt/Mobility/Quick on 4.7 the chances are that a lot of the effort can be recycled between Maemo, MeeGo in different UXs, KDE in different UXs and Symbian in the near future.

Originally Posted by ZogG View Post
so qqil, what would u say now, especially about We were actively discouraged from developing for Maemo any further
What do you expect me to say?

Marcin is a community contributor not related with Nokia that decided to WONTFIX his own bug.

Instinctiv is a small software company that (afaik) asked Forum Nokia for advice on where to put the constrained resources they had put in their Maemo releases. Forum Nokia explained what are the perspectives of further sales of Maemo devices compared to Symbian devices, and recommended them to focus now in Qt for Symbian as primary platform in order to maximize the return of investment. This makes business sense in the times of the N8, E7, etc. Any serious developer here being asked by someone having to pay salaries of other developers would have probably answered the same.
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rrdbala is offline rrdbala
2010-12-09 , 02:47
Posts: 132 | Thanked: 42 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#82
Hi Qgil / any one from NOKIA,

i am sorry if this is off topic ....... i very curious to know answers for these questions.

I am not a developer and i am just an end user. we are seeing NOKIA releases so many new apps and games for all version of symbian . why they don't even consider Maemo / N900 atleat for few apps where that could be really useful. can't they just backport few of the good apps for the N900 for the amount thry sold this device.

I see the term QT allover in nokia world which could bring apps for all of NOKIA's platform ....but in reality there is nothing for Maemo from NOKIA.

don't we deserve an answer from NOKIA why they don't care for this device?

what happened to OVI maps for N900? they could atleat give an updated map data, it was still 2002 maps data. no other company ignores their own product like NOKIA does.

i do not know how they expect more sales for N8 as no one knows when they will abaondon that too.?this is an frustration from just an ordinary user..... this phone just lives because of some great people from this community who still supports ...
 
stenny is offline stenny
2010-12-09 , 03:21
Posts: 81 | Thanked: 114 times | Joined on Jun 2010
#83
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
There is also the argument that Nokia prefers to encourage contributions around the frameworks currently in development rather than encourage contributions (by opening the source code) around the frameworks that the Nokia software strategy is not interested in pushing anymore.
Ridiculous, specious argument. If that were the case they'd have opened the damn calendar source in 2009. We don't need this ex post facto crap about why Nokia dropped the ball this time (and the time before that), we need some kind of assurance that Nokia is going to break this half-opened/immediately-abandoned habit it's developing. We're all tired of getting burned.

The framework in question, which the Nokia software strategy (as though this is an entity that can have interests) has lost interest in, is one year old. One year. It was developed behind closed doors, where Nokia had a head start. What possible reason would anyone have to develop for the next big deal? So Nokia can call people like the Instinctiv devs and tell them to get bent and please quit attracting attention to this device we charged $600 for?

The n900 hasn't even been around one day for every megabyte of the SDK. And already we're being told to get stuffed. I'm going to need some serious displays of commitment to any product at all before I'm doing one more lick of work on any stupid Future Magic that Nokia claims is in the works. Meanwhile, the difference between Meego and Maemo is that Maemo is present and it works.

Meego (handset) is a tremendous joke, and I know where the n900 Meego port is going: the same direction as Mer. If you're trying to stuff the platform, well done.


Originally Posted by qgil View Post
The developer community can contribute to community projects under development with a good chance to become a top notch media player, a top notch calendar, etc. The frameworks and APIs are all there - I would argue that the candidates as well.
Great. Let's start from scratch. That way by the time a project matures, we can scrap it all and start over when some other internal political clown car gets the pole position. Nokia's going to have to learn to make decisions and stick with them. I know I'm angry that Maemo users (and especially developers) keep getting screwed, but I can only imagine how terrible the Symbian Foundation people must feel.

Originally Posted by qgil View Post
You have the KDE mobile developers, the Qt Quick app developers, the Python+Qt developers, the traditional Qt developers, the new MeeGo... all of them with interesting projects in the hands and looking for contributions. Is there any reason in the N900 hardware and the Maemo 5 software to stop that coolness? Honestly, I don't see it.
Of course you don't. You've been taken into the fold. To you, the fact that Qt was cobbled in after-the-fact to our Gtk-based interface *has* to seem cool. If it didn't, you'd be out of a job.
Last edited by stenny; 2010-12-09 at 03:49.
 

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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2010-12-09 , 03:29
Posts: 5,335 | Thanked: 8,187 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA
#84
Please refrain from attacking or insulting individuals.
 

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stenny is offline stenny
2010-12-09 , 03:47
Posts: 81 | Thanked: 114 times | Joined on Jun 2010
#85
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
Please refrain from attacking or insulting individuals.
Individuals should refrain from behaving in a way whose description constitutes an insult.
Last edited by stenny; 2010-12-09 at 03:49.
 
lardman is offline lardman
2010-12-09 , 09:14
Posts: 2,102 | Thanked: 1,309 times | Joined on Sep 2006
#86
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Let me be more clear: if a Qt based popular and established community project like Amarok is planning/working on going mobile (they are) then a possibility for developers willing to have a great free media player for Maemo 5 is to get in touch and exchange expertise areas. Using Qt/Mobility/Quick on 4.7 the chances are that a lot of the effort can be recycled between Maemo, MeeGo in different UXs, KDE in different UXs and Symbian in the near future.
Ok, so that is useful information. Out of interest, what about the Meego reference media players, are they not considered worth using/working on?

Looking at Amarok, I see that they are not overly keen on GStreamer (which is no surprise really), which makes me wonder whether it will be possible to integrate the existing DSP tasks (for video of course) with whatever backend the Qt Phonon abstraction decides to use. I'll have to do some research.

I'm quite looking forward to having a workable Meego image on my N900, and then being able to tweak/hack/add features to my heart's content. Some sort of guidance as to which apps are recommended (given the nod by Nokia ), etc., would be useful to avoid wasted effort - I remember this from the days of OpenZaurus where there were myriad media players, etc.

My ideal of a Meego image that I can use and still improve may not suit other people though, as we'll effectively go to something that is less polished and almost invariably will have more application bugs than we currently have in Maemo - I like this, gives me something to do, things to improve, but I fear that a lot of people will want to skip this step and remain with Maemo until Meego becomes polished enough. These people will still want bug fixes in the existing Maemo codebase.
 

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lma is offline lma
2010-12-09 , 09:38
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#87
Originally Posted by tso View Post
there is only on thing i would really like to see, and that is a way to get a fixed js engine into the M4 microb build...
The engine is open, the rest is an exercise left to the reader ;-)
 

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nicolai is offline nicolai
2010-12-09 , 10:59
Posts: 1,637 | Thanked: 4,424 times | Joined on Apr 2009 @ Germany
#88
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
The developer community can contribute to community projects under development with a good chance to become a top notch media player, a top notch calendar, etc. The frameworks and APIs are all there - I would argue that the candidates as well.

You have the KDE mobile developers, the Qt Quick app developers, the Python+Qt developers, the traditional Qt developers, the new MeeGo... all of them with interesting projects in the hands and looking for contributions. Is there any reason in the N900 hardware and the Maemo 5 software to stop that coolness? Honestly, I don't see it.
These are all valid points. And I wish this projects great success, not
for maemo, not for meego or nokia, just because I prefer open developed alternatives.
But this raises the question:
Why nokia can not adopt this for its own products?

In my opinion, developing and producing an open OS based, open
community supported device and deliver it with closed source application
is a big mistake.
It was a mistake for the Nokia 770, N800, N810 and N900.

I don't say I expect to get all software for free or open. I don't say
we deserve to get this closed parts open. But I think it was a mistake
and hoped nokia could correct this.

I follow the meego handset UX development and asked for the
application specifications, I hoped the community could help to
not repeat nokias Maemo5 mistakes (missing functions in applications,
like contacts, phone-ui, calendar ...)
This was before I realised the first "meego" device won't use meego handset UX,
but instead nokias applications are developed behind closed doors again.

There is so much power in this community. Honestly, I don't see
any advantage in developing again those applications as closed source components.
Nicolai
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Venemo is offline Venemo
2010-12-09 , 11:32
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#89
Originally Posted by nicolai View Post
In my opinion, developing and producing an open OS based, open community supported device and deliver it with closed source application is a big mistake.
It was a mistake for the Nokia 770, N800, N810 and N900.
Yeah, it was a mistake and it was a big one. Although I'm sure they had their reasons. (With which I'm not familiar.)

Originally Posted by nicolai View Post
There is so much power in this community. Honestly, I don't see any advantage in developing again those applications as closed source components.
Nicolai
At least now we have open source versions of these applications. There are various reference applications in the Handset UX which look promising.
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ZogG is offline ZogG
2010-12-09 , 11:39
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#90
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Instinctiv is a small software company that (afaik) asked Forum Nokia for advice on where to put the constrained resources they had put in their Maemo releases. Forum Nokia explained what are the perspectives of further sales of Maemo devices compared to Symbian devices, and recommended them to focus now in Qt for Symbian as primary platform in order to maximize the return of investment. This makes business sense in the times of the N8, E7, etc. Any serious developer here being asked by someone having to pay salaries of other developers would have probably answered the same.
So where is all Qt and multiplatform porting between symbian/maemo/meego thing? u and nokia always said its chance to devs, cause they can easily port app from one os to other, and now u say it's better to dev for symbian phone? so it'a all just adv? and this is support i'm talikng about, when nokia says to devs not to develop for their own os =) now how maemo is gonna survive? or u want community to write all applications like thousands of apps for android?
 
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