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	allnameswereout	2008-10-23 , 12:46
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#81

Originally Posted by Thesandlord

Lets see, no killing, stealing, disrespect, be nice, etc....

The differences come in the superficial aspects (the mask), such as "no abortion or gays" or "women must cover their faces."

Jesus taught compassion. This is what inspires Women On Waves.

So, how does this make more atheists today? Well, in a country diverse as the USA, and in the Bay Area of San Fransisco, so many religions clash, that none is seen as an authority. Instead, we get our "Moral Order" from the government and ourselves, aka atheist. Of course, some of us want more guidance in our lives, so we turn to religion. Simple as that.

From what I gathered the people there have a different attitude than in the rest of the USA. But I've roughly only been there; not so much other parts of USA.

If anyone tells you a religion is better than another, and you should switch, ask yourself why. What better guidance can the alternative religion offer. If it is some ******** answer, then the person is simply trying to gain power.

I suggest: listen, don't use one source for information, look into the religion if it interests you. Just like with science.

Don't become attached to one religion. Study religions, take what you like, discard the rest. That is what I did, and sometimes still do. We all have morals and ethics. It is up to you to create your own.

The advantage of this is that I know positive sides of many religions.

The negative are easily to get, e.g. via news.

To be frank I'm failing for I haven't figured a positive side of Scientology yet... but thats my problem

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	allnameswereout	2008-10-23 , 12:52
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#82

Originally Posted by geneven

Someone said that in order to be a true atheist, you would have to be omnipotent. True, the same goes for you who don't believe in Santa. Have you checked everywhere to see whether Santa was there? No, you haven't.

If the above reasoning is correct about Santa, I am an agnostic about Santa and about God.

Well.... Santa Claus is based on the Dutch 'Sinterklaas' (Sint-Nicolaas), who was a Greek bishop of Myra (now Turkey) in ~300 A.D. You can read more here.

And, if you've never has them. Try to buy some speculaas cookies. They're an old tradition here 9especially on Sinterklaas), and very tasty.

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	allnameswereout	2008-10-23 , 12:56
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#83

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

Glad you caught that. I can assure you it was not unintentional.

How manipulative. Then don't capitalize muslim at all.

... says the one from the country where Fortuyn was shot in the head because the leftie loonie didn't like his political views.

... says the one from the country where Theo Van Gogh was knifed and gutted by a muslim mainstreamer because he didn't like the way Theo talked about his "prophet".

Said the one who's UN soldiers didn't do anything to protect the muslim enclave Sjebrenijca. So what? Whats your point?

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

Go try turn your booze into water.

You assume I agree with the assessment I quote.

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	Karel Jansens	2008-10-23 , 13:01
	Posts: 3,220 \| Thanked: 326 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)	#84

Originally Posted by tso

i take it your not much fond of the latest wave of muslim immigrants/"invaders", karel

As one who is in the process of emigrating to another country, one where I am uncompromisingly expected to either adapt or be forever branded as a second-class resident, I find the voluntary dhimmitude of Europeans revolting, especially towards a backward and ******ed ideology that disguises itself as a religion.

So: yes.

i suspect the person existed, but that the claims of his exploits have been exaggerated over the centuries.

Maybe, but contrary to Christianity, scientific tolerance is not really part of islam. Just go look up what kinds of things tend to "happen" to people who do research into the figure of Mohammed outside of the writings of the koran.

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	Karel Jansens	2008-10-23 , 13:04
	Posts: 3,220 \| Thanked: 326 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)	#85

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Said the one who's UN soldiers didn't do anything to protect the muslim enclave Sjebrenijca. So what? Whats your point?

But that's not my country; I'm Flemish. Besides, I can tell you've been very unilaterally "informed" about what exactly happened and is happening in the Balkan. The use of the term "enclave" alone is rather telling.

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	pycage	2008-10-23 , 13:06
	Posts: 3,404 \| Thanked: 4,474 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany	#86

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

And what I heard is that odds are Mohammed never even existed, and that the Koran was originally a collection of simplified excerpts from the Bible and other Christian writings, adapted for the simple goat fuc^H^H^Hherding Arab nomads of the peninsula. A bunch of warlords then used these writings to justify their ways, but as usual with humans, things got out of hand.

Mind you, a non-existing Mohammed is somewhat of an improvement over a pedophile Mohammed.

Well, I heard that probably Jesus never existed as well. He's said to be personification of a savior character of some Jewish sects. Some guy named Paulus must have been so obsessed about this idea that he founded a new religion based on legends from these sects.
There's an interesting book on this theory. "The Christ Myth" by Arthur Drews, from about 100 years ago.

In the end it might turn out that the only religion founder who ever really existed was LaVey...
Oh, and Linus Torvalds of course!

dont	2008-10-23 , 13:08
Posts: 334 \| Thanked: 55 times \| Joined on Aug 2007 @ Eastern Ontario, Canada	#87

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

As one who is in the process of emigrating to another country

Which one?

	penguinbait	2008-10-23 , 13:15
	Posts: 3,096 \| Thanked: 1,525 times \| Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA	#88

I will ask again, since my thread appears to be hijacked.

"Can't we all just get along"

If you are a Christian talk about your Christian beliefs instead of trying to "educate" others on Islam. If you are a Muslim talk about your Islamic beliefs. If your an Athiest feel free to talk about why you don't believe, but don't act like people who do are stupid.

Seriously can't we have a conversation about our differences without resorting to name calling.

So I am asking, please, can't we all just get along. I did not intend this post to cause a religious war.

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	tso	2008-10-23 , 13:17
	Posts: 4,783 \| Thanked: 1,253 times \| Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway	#89

Originally Posted by Karel Jansens

Maybe, but contrary to Christianity, scientific tolerance is not really part of islam. Just go look up what kinds of things tend to "happen" to people who do research into the figure of Mohammed outside of the writings of the koran.

i would say that the big diff between chirstianity and islam is that most of chirstianity had the extremism beaten out of it between 1000 and 1600 or there about.

on the other hand, islam is just hitting that age of strife (the religion got going around 900 iirc).

and while the "bending knees and wrapped women" style makes for a lot of press, there are as many of not more that deal with islam as most of europe deals with christianity. a starting point for a moral code, but not something that one follow by the letter.

question is, can the rest of the world hold out while islam gets its collective pubertal rebellious energy burned?

	pycage	2008-10-23 , 13:18
	Posts: 3,404 \| Thanked: 4,474 times \| Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany	#90

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Well.... Santa Claus is based on the Dutch 'Sinterklaas' (Sint-Nicolaas), who was a Greek bishop of Myra (now Turkey) in ~300 A.D. You can read more here.

And, if you've never has them. Try to buy some speculaas cookies. They're an old tradition here 9especially on Sinterklaas), and very tasty.

That's what we call St. Nikolaus in Germany. His date is Dec. 6th. The person we know as Santa Claus is a derivation of the Holly King, the red-clad spirit of celtic origin, who visits the people on Yule tide (Dec. 25th). Some nordic-influenced languages (e.g. English, Norwegian) still have the name yule as synonym for christmas.

And speculaas are really tasty.

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