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2010-01-27
, 13:00
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#82
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Originally Posted by pycage
Overvoltage, actually.
The N900 scales up to 600 MHz on demand. Locking it to 600 MHz is dangerous to the electronics (because of heat?) according to Nokia. So, no overclocking, unfortunately.
Originally Posted by jakiman
I'm sorry, but this opinion is just uninformed. The N900 scales the CPU clock constantly (several times a second in fact) and the built-in powersaving software will NEVER lock the CPU over 500MHz for any extended period of time. Doing is is highly likely to lead to premature failure.
That's not true at all. The ONLY reason it clocks down to 250mhz is to save power. Nothing else.
When I play videos on my N900, it runs at 600mhz constant. For hours. Zero issue.
Originally Posted by jakiman
Mobile CPUs are not desktop CPUs. What pycage said is spot on, in fact, it's your own opinion that you need to be more hesitant about.
If what you said was true, it would be very scary indeed and every N900 is 100% guaranteed to crash/fail very often.
I can only assume that you obviously don't know about overclocking and how CPU's are manufactured.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-27
, 13:02
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#83
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Originally Posted by javispedro
Not just Nokia, but the TI engineers involved with the Beagle Board project say the same thing.
Again, we repeat: a Nokia engineer said clocking it at 600Mhz is _dangerous_. Now, if you feel smarter than the guys who dsigned the device and have the specifications at hand...
So, who are you going to trust. Random people insisting that because they can overclock their Celeron, clearly they can overclock their N900 with the same confidence or several skilled engineers from both TI and Nokia who are intimately familiar with the ins and outs of both the hardware and software aspects of OMAP3 and its powersaving.
Yeah. . . .
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-27
, 13:11
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#84
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Originally Posted by jakiman
The impact is a lot of users turning their $600+ devices into bricks.
But I don't see why you guys are all dissing the possibility to make the N900 faster at possibily zero impact/cost.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-27
, 13:13
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Posts: 1,427 |
Thanked: 2,077 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Sydney
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#85
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
WIth Conky, I'm refreshing it only every 1 second. So you may be right. But at the same time, I can see that at every 1 second, it's running at 600mhz every time. And I cannot assume it's doing any good by constantly going down to 500mhz or less than back to 600mhz every 1 second. That would not even make sense.
I'm sorry, but this opinion is just uninformed. The N900 scales the CPU clock constantly (several times a second in fact) and the built-in powersaving software will NEVER lock the CPU over 500MHz for any extended period of time. Doing is is highly likely to lead to premature failure.
Mobile CPUs are not desktop CPUs. What pycage said is spot on, in fact, it's your own opinion that you need to be more hesitant about.
Anyways, maybe it's not so easy overclocking the N900 if other chips also rely on the same FSB and/or if the multiplier on the CPU cannot be changed. If that's the case, I guess it's not possible even if the ARM cpu can handle faster clock.
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Yeah, but like any other cpu overclocking or turbo charging your car, there are consequences if not careful. =)
The impact is a lot of users turning their $600+ devices into bricks.
I'm just curious as to if such application or a firmware hack can even be created to make overclocking just the ARM Cortex CPU possible? If so, I'm sure many will be happy to risk their phones. Myself included. Life is all about risk anyways.
If not overclocking, what about underclocking or locking whatever 'already-possible-frequency" so it cannot run faster than 250mhz or even 125mhz or lower etc? It would improve runtime greatly in certain situations.
Last edited by jakiman; 2010-01-27 at 13:20.
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2010-01-27
, 13:20
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#86
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Originally Posted by jakiman
It's telling that you insist on stating so many opinions as facts without the support of reality to back them. . . .
WIth Conky, I'm refreshing it only every 1 second. So you may be right. But at the same time, I can see that at every 1 second, it's running at 600mhz every time. And I cannot assume it's doing any good by constantly going down to 500mhz or less than back to 600mhz every 1 second. That would not even make sense.
Anyways, maybe it's not so easy overclocking the N900 if other chips also rely on the same FSB and/or if the multiplier on the CPU cannot be changed. If that's the case, I guess it's not possible even if the ARM cpu can handle faster clock.
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-01-27
, 13:24
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Posts: 1,427 |
Thanked: 2,077 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Sydney
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#87
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Well, similar technology already exists in many PC components including the current CPUs. So I know what you mean. But you are basically saying it as if N900's cpu cannot handle 600mhz for no more than a split second at a time. To me, that's already risky if the cpu can't even handle 600mhz constant. If the whole reason behind the constant clocking is to reduce heat or power, then I understand. (But this means the cpu itself can handle the speed)
It's telling that you insist on stating so many opinions as facts without the support of reality to back them. . . .
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2010-01-27
, 13:24
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Posts: 692 |
Thanked: 264 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#88
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I was all for overclocking earlier (based on other PDAs with the same CPU that run at higher clock speeds), but if the engineers intimately familiar with the CPU's use in the N900 say even 600Mhz can be dangerous, then I can't recommend overclocking. I'll agree it's quite risky and unusual to have a device run on the ragged edge of its capability right out of the box.
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2010-01-27
, 13:32
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Posts: 1,224 |
Thanked: 1,763 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#89
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
I'm sorry, but this opinion is just uninformed. The N900 scales the CPU clock constantly (several times a second in fact) and the built-in powersaving software will NEVER lock the CPU over 500MHz for any extended period of time. Doing is is highly likely to lead to premature failure.
This is incorrect. Nokia use standard kernel cpufreq governor (ondemand) which does no such thing. If there is constant use of cpu, it remains at maximum frequency. Maybe there is some user space program that limits maximum frequency according to some temperature sensor, but I doubt it.
See result of a very simple experiment:
Code:
N900:~# cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state ; date ; for i in ` seq 1 10` ; do bzip2 -c9 /lib/libc-2.5.so > /dev/null ; done ; cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state ; date 600000 20464 550000 487 500000 17132 250000 1120872 Wed Jan 27 15:24:26 IST 2010 600000 22572 550000 487 500000 17132 250000 1120875 Wed Jan 27 15:24:47 IST 2010 N900:~# date ; cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state ; for i in ` seq 1 100` ; do bzip2 -c9 /lib/libc-2.5.so > /dev/null ; done ; cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state ; date Wed Jan 27 15:25:21 IST 2010 600000 22599 550000 487 500000 17132 250000 1124167 600000 43656 550000 487 500000 17132 250000 1124195 Wed Jan 27 15:28:51 IST 2010
In the second run during 210 seconds, the CPU spent 0 time at 550MHz, 0 time at 500MHz and 0.28 seconds at 250MHz.
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My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
My repository
"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".
No more Nokia devices for me.
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2010-01-27
, 13:35
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Posts: 3,404 |
Thanked: 4,474 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ Germany
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#90
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Originally Posted by jakiman
Why not? A second is 1 000 000 000 nanoseconds. That's almost like an eternity for the CPU.
WIth Conky, I'm refreshing it only every 1 second. So you may be right. But at the same time, I can see that at every 1 second, it's running at 600mhz every time. And I cannot assume it's doing any good by constantly going down to 500mhz or less than back to 600mhz every 1 second. That would not even make sense.
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All times are GMT. The time now is 21:51.
Nokia is just saying that to stop people from even trying. Overclocking can obviously lead to higher temperature and an unstable device when pushed too high. (and possibly more warranty returns etc) But that's worst case scenario. Heck, Intel's been saying that. Currently, the slowest quad core Intel cpu can easily be overclocked to make it faster than their most expensive cpu which cost 5 times or more. It takes 30seconds to do and with no extra cooling. I know what I would say if I was Intel. Same as Nokia.
I can see why some people are against it. But I don't see it as any worse than installing some very unstable app from extras-devel and bricking the N900. Just like any other "mod", only those who wish to "risk" their N900 should do it.
But I don't see why you guys are all dissing the possibility to make the N900 faster at possibily zero impact/cost.
Last edited by jakiman; 2010-01-27 at 13:03.