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2010-01-12
, 19:35
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Posts: 124 |
Thanked: 213 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
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#82
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Simple, fatalsaint - risk management
Nokia sell and support the device. To manage the risk of unknown users doing unknown things to this device, they restrict privileged functions.
M'fers of laptops, PCs netbooks have dedicated tech support teams for their hardware - typically Windows platform support, but linux is increasing.
Nokia makes phones. You buy a box with a gizmo in it. Take it out, turn it on....it does what it says on the tin.
Now their market is converging with the computer market, courtesy of the N series Maemo devices....most notably the N900. This is a whole different arena of exposure for them, and they are trying to make wise decisions to ensure they do not put themselves on the hook for a mammoth linux support effort.
I would have been more restrictive, as I mentioned earlier....but to placate people like you (with your valid criticisms) I would have made the "hacker upgrade" readily available with the standard device install, with all the usual warnings and alarms
Nokia sell and support the device. To manage the risk of unknown users doing unknown things to this device, they restrict privileged functions.
M'fers of laptops, PCs netbooks have dedicated tech support teams for their hardware - typically Windows platform support, but linux is increasing.
Nokia makes phones. You buy a box with a gizmo in it. Take it out, turn it on....it does what it says on the tin.
Now their market is converging with the computer market, courtesy of the N series Maemo devices....most notably the N900. This is a whole different arena of exposure for them, and they are trying to make wise decisions to ensure they do not put themselves on the hook for a mammoth linux support effort.
I would have been more restrictive, as I mentioned earlier....but to placate people like you (with your valid criticisms) I would have made the "hacker upgrade" readily available with the standard device install, with all the usual warnings and alarms
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2010-01-12
, 19:37
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Posts: 2,014 |
Thanked: 1,581 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#83
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Hrmm - ok I can see that situation - but I don't think it would be common. In that case come on the forums and ask for the rootsh package - or go to the download page on this site.
And I agree with all your comments 100%.. but what is your solution for people with a broken package manager and no rootsh? I don't like Red Pill mode.. never have... but I do succumb to there being a requirement to install deb files in rare cases.
__________________
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2010-01-12
, 19:40
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#84
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Originally Posted by Dak
This is fine.. bells and whistles galore.
I would have been more restrictive, as I mentioned earlier....but to placate people like you (with your valid criticisms) I would have made the "hacker upgrade" readily available with the standard device install, with all the usual warnings and alarms
The way I see it.. if Nokia doesn't want people to be root - they would try more to stop it (ala Apple). If they don't care.. they may as well add it.
We are talking about a very few times scenario here that someone can't install rootsh.. and in these cases it's very frustrating dealing with a device that locks you out. It's these rare times you may as well have an iPhone, or an Android.. you can't do Shyte.
But we all know Nokia knows about rootsh.. it's in just extras for crying out loud.. not even testing or devel designed for *testers*.. its in the USER repository..
You know for sure they get calls with people that have rootsh installed.. I would stake my paycheck on it.
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2010-01-12
, 19:40
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#85
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Originally Posted by Bratag
But without root, without Install from File, and without Red Pill mode... how do they install the rootsh package?? That's the debate.
Hrmm - ok I can see that situation - but I don't think it would be common. In that case come on the forums and ask for the rootsh package - or go to the download page on this site.
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2010-01-12
, 19:46
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#86
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The problem with this issue is that both sides have equally valid points... which means Nokia has simply chosen to err to the side of caution.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-12
, 19:50
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#87
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Which is fine.. .if I felt it actually prevented anything.. I just - don't really think it does. Kathy's link to the other thread is a perfect example.. rootsh gets installed even by those that don't need or even really want it.. just because it's all over these forums.
The problem with this issue is that both sides have equally valid points... which means Nokia has simply chosen to err to the side of caution.
If we wanted to be cautious... rootsh would never have made it to extras. It should be permanently an extras-testing package because should only be used by "testers" and above.. to use a sort of grading scale as an example.
Having it in the normal user extras repository that is point-click easy to install, doesn't really prevent anything IMHO.. it's just an annoyance.
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2010-01-12
, 19:51
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Posts: 397 |
Thanked: 227 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#88
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
No, you don't understand. Nokia wants us to have root, but they don't want to have to deal with the support that comes with officially bundling it out of the box. If you brick your device with a third-party application like rootsh or Angry birds, it's not Nokias responsibility than say if it was bricked by the Phone app.
The way I see it.. if Nokia doesn't want people to be root - they would try more to stop it (ala Apple). If they don't care.. they may as well add it.
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2010-01-12
, 19:52
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Posts: 2,014 |
Thanked: 1,581 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#89
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Is that really ever likely to happen?
But without root, without Install from File, and without Red Pill mode... how do they install the rootsh package?? That's the debate.
__________________
Class .. : Power Poster, Potential Coder
Humor .. : [*********] Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Patience : [***-------] Weapon(s): +2 Logic Mace
Agro ... : |*****-----] Relic(s) : G1, N900
Class .. : Power Poster, Potential Coder
Humor .. : [*********] Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Patience : [***-------] Weapon(s): +2 Logic Mace
Agro ... : |*****-----] Relic(s) : G1, N900
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2010-01-12
, 19:54
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#90
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Originally Posted by ColdFusion
So your telling me if any of these people brick their device with rootsh Nokia will say they voided their warranty and won't help them?
No, you don't understand. Nokia wants us to have root, but they don't want to have to deal with the support that comes with officially bundling it out of the box. If you brick your device with a third-party application like rootsh or Angry birds, it's not Nokias responsibility than say if it was bricked by the Phone app.
How would that be any different than Apple, exactly?
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