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2010-01-21
, 18:14
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#82
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Originally Posted by Texrat
But your logic works both ways.. A flawed assumption that everything is fine with the N900?
And the easy reply is, "what percentage?"
Because small percentages indicate anomalies. Things unanticipated (right or wrong), hardware defects, software conflicts, etc.
This is not to diminish the validity of the claims. Rather, it is to place them into the proper context. If 90% posters say the N900 is generally slow, they are likely onto something. A good example was the poor internet video performance of the N810/N800/770-- it was universal, and obviously slow.
But many complaints here are shared by a very small number of people, NOT a majority. This is especially true since the majority tends not to say anything. This results in flawed assumptions by some that since they only see complaints then the problems must represent the norm.
When the minority has an issue, then many in the majority expect complainers to participate in troubleshooting. But too many complainers refuse, and that results in aggressive "fanboy" responses from people tired of those demanding to be spoonfed by volunteers.
It would be nice if everyone could digest this, and we then move on. But it keeps having to be explained over and over and over and over... and some are surprised when forum leaders get testy?
It does seem that a lot of die hard Maemo people are burying their heads in the sand. Yes the N900 is generally zippy but can slow down at times.. Id like the N900 OS to be a competitor to Android/iphone one of these days (in terms of bugs/polish/interoperable apps).
Sorry Im not trying to be antagonistic, I just want to improve things.
Last edited by chrisp7; 2010-01-21 at 18:19.
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2010-01-21
, 18:18
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Joined on Jan 2008
@ Ontario, Canada
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#83
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I dunno. Here's my experience with this stuff...
My n810 was an excellent device (still is, still works, just isn't fast enough, doesn't have some capabilities I now enjoy with the n900). It was not by any means polished, but it did well what it it.
My n900 is a step forward, with a shuffle to the left (or right if you prefer a conservative slant...) - it's much faster than the n900 was, and it does exactly what it says on the tin. It also bears in mind the official Nokia stance of 'one step closer to the final product.'
This is not an excuse. It's more in the way of a fact. As an early adopter, these things must be taken into account. This is not a criticism of anyone who dislikes the device. It is, also, a fact.
Yes, it's incredibly frustrating to have your expectations cruelly dashed, but consider if your expectations coming in were unrealistic. My own were a faster n810 with tv out. That's what I got, and more. SOmetimes I try to make it do things I think it should and get knocked back. The result is to wait and see or DIY. My experience with this community has been that the former is usually a good thing given my coding skills, but the latter is still doable. And fun, after all these years.
I haven't found a problem I can't live with.
It might be that the original ads were misleading, but I don't think so (except for the one with the photo at the concert - bit naff that). The device actually does perform according to those adverts. In my experience.
Maybe it's because my first computer was a ZX81 and this is so much better
Maybe it's because I manage my expectations.
The <pick other supplier here>Phone may meet others' expectations better because they're aimed squarely at those expectations, whereas I *think* the n900 is aimed squarely at the 'what can we achieve on the road to a real consumer device' target.
It is a pretty neat little box though.
wibble
PS I'm not a fanperson, I'm far too old and grey for that. Don't go there, okay?
My n810 was an excellent device (still is, still works, just isn't fast enough, doesn't have some capabilities I now enjoy with the n900). It was not by any means polished, but it did well what it it.
My n900 is a step forward, with a shuffle to the left (or right if you prefer a conservative slant...) - it's much faster than the n900 was, and it does exactly what it says on the tin. It also bears in mind the official Nokia stance of 'one step closer to the final product.'
This is not an excuse. It's more in the way of a fact. As an early adopter, these things must be taken into account. This is not a criticism of anyone who dislikes the device. It is, also, a fact.
Yes, it's incredibly frustrating to have your expectations cruelly dashed, but consider if your expectations coming in were unrealistic. My own were a faster n810 with tv out. That's what I got, and more. SOmetimes I try to make it do things I think it should and get knocked back. The result is to wait and see or DIY. My experience with this community has been that the former is usually a good thing given my coding skills, but the latter is still doable. And fun, after all these years.
I haven't found a problem I can't live with.
It might be that the original ads were misleading, but I don't think so (except for the one with the photo at the concert - bit naff that). The device actually does perform according to those adverts. In my experience.
Maybe it's because my first computer was a ZX81 and this is so much better
Maybe it's because I manage my expectations.
The <pick other supplier here>Phone may meet others' expectations better because they're aimed squarely at those expectations, whereas I *think* the n900 is aimed squarely at the 'what can we achieve on the road to a real consumer device' target.
It is a pretty neat little box though.
wibble
PS I'm not a fanperson, I'm far too old and grey for that. Don't go there, okay?
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2010-01-21
, 18:22
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Posts: 155 |
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Joined on Jan 2008
@ Ontario, Canada
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#84
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Originally Posted by RevdKathy
I dunno, maybe the Duke himself has one. Someone should ask him...
And Mo is sorry to hear that the only other n900 we know of in the Duchy will be going back.
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2010-01-21
, 18:22
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Posts: 472 |
Thanked: 442 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
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#85
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Originally Posted by chrisp7
There is no burying my head in the sand. I can guarantee you I use my Nokia the way it was meant to be used. Business IT-Professional, and I have zero problems with it. The things people complain about I consider "fluffware" problems. I personally don't give a **** if the media player doesn't hold a playlist (which apparantly it does, but I've never investigated it). I didn't buy it to listen to music. I can buy a cheap ipod for that.
Im sorry you simply cant cast aside n900 issues like that. The majority of problems I, and seemingly other people on this board are actual bugs/lack of attention to detail. Please dont treat users with such disdain. Im sure a lot of people could write a long list of issues with the N900. To reiterate, I love my N900 but just burying your head in the sand and saying its the users/extras apps at fault just doesnt wash/does no one any good.
I bought it so I can quite literally keep tabs on over 800 stores from anywhere, access both *nix and Windows machines via either ssh, telnet, VNC and remote desktop while being anywhere. That is where the n900 shines, and is obviously the n900's target audience.
Hell, when the device comes with the shell icon literally in your face on the app menu, it's obvious who the target audience is. I show others the shell and they're like, "Um.. cool."
Obviously not intended for them as they're not IT professionals and have no clue what Linux or even a shell is. I'm glad for the people that come here and learn and have the "tough enough" attitude to tweak, hack and mold their n900 to do what they want. That's the point of it. But to cry because some app scrolls a little too slow for you means you're in the wrong field. And I will never be apologetic for that. Again, if you don't even know how to check the n900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it. It wasn't meant for you. (You being anyone reading this)
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If you don't know how to check your N900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it.
If you don't know how to check your N900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it.
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2010-01-21
, 18:23
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#86
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Originally Posted by chrisp7
Sorry, no it doesn't work both ways. Things are fine by default. If the majority doesn't complain, it doesn't indicate "heads buried in sand"-- it indicates a lower threshold for satisfaction.
But your logic works both ways.. A flawed assumption that everything is fine with the N900?
It does seem that a lot of die hard Maemo people are burying their heads in the sand. Yes the N900 is generally zippy but can slow down at times.. Id like the N900 OS to be a competitor to Android/iphone one of these days (in terms of bugs/polish/interoperable apps).
Sorry Im not trying to be antagonistic, I just want to improve things.
And while we're at it, your comment is one of those unnecessarily provocative statements that elicits backlash. It is antagonistic by nature.
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Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-01-21
, 18:26
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Joined on May 2009
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#87
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Originally Posted by etuoyo
Sometimes when i read these i feel like my 5 weeks old N900 is somehow different
I would also love to know the answer to this. The media player - the less said about it the better. It can take up to a week for it to finally recognise all the media files you have added. And even then it takes ages to do anything. Starting a video is particularly painful (I can press play as many as 10 times before a video starts playing - not because it didn't recognise my press the 1st, 2nd, 3rd time, etc but because it is just taking 10 years to start the video). Then the video stutters for the first few seconds. Contrast that with my old 2nd gen ipod touch that was able to start videos immediately and play them smoothly from the start.
And it is not just the media player that is slow. It just seems to take too much time with everything in contrast to you know what which is a far older device.
Music player is fast. I got Ipod touch 2G, Zune HD and 5800 here to compare. Only thing that's mentioned here is that it takes 1-3h to regonize all the songs i put there first time i transfered videos, music and what not to N900. This should be fixed and fast no doubt.
My videos play great on the N900. Example random 700mb Top Gear episode from Finalgear.com played like a dream and i actually got 2 Top Gear season on the device with 2 movies that play just as smooth with no need to do anything to the videos. Thought i got 40mb trailer that did take 4 secs to start and then stutters like crazy.
Do your ipod touch really play any random file you give it? Mine didn't and i started from the presumption that i would need to do something to the video before it would even play.
Last edited by tissot; 2010-01-21 at 18:34.
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2010-01-21
, 18:42
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 193 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
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#88
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Originally Posted by Laughingstok
But surely you admit your opinion is pretty small minded - you arent exactly considering the rest of the more mainstream N900 owners.. I wouldnt say your opinion is all that relevant then! If there is a media player on a device, at least make it work well, same goes for maps etc etc. There are other users with differing needs out there.
There is no burying my head in the sand. I can guarantee you I use my Nokia the way it was meant to be used. Business IT-Professional, and I have zero problems with it. The things people complain about I consider "fluffware" problems. I personally don't give a **** if the media player doesn't hold a playlist (which apparantly it does, but I've never investigated it). I didn't buy it to listen to music. I can buy a cheap ipod for that.
I bought it so I can quite literally keep tabs on over 800 stores from anywhere, access both *nix and Windows machines via either ssh, telnet, VNC and remote desktop while being anywhere. That is where the n900 shines, and is obviously the n900's target audience.
Hell, when the device comes with the shell icon literally in your face on the app menu, it's obvious who the target audience is. I show others the shell and they're like, "Um.. cool."
Obviously not intended for them as they're not IT professionals and have no clue what Linux or even a shell is. I'm glad for the people that come here and learn and have the "tough enough" attitude to tweak, hack and mold their n900 to do what they want. That's the point of it. But to cry because some app scrolls a little too slow for you means you're in the wrong field. And I will never be apologetic for that. Again, if you don't even know how to check the n900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it. It wasn't meant for you. (You being anyone reading this)
Originally Posted by Texrat
Well from the blogs/threads on here I see quite a few issues, I hope these are fixed.
Sorry, no it doesn't work both ways. Things are fine by default. If the majority doesn't complain, it doesn't indicate "heads buried in sand"-- it indicates a lower threshold for satisfaction.
And while we're at it, your comment is one of those unnecessarily provocative statements that elicits backlash. It is antagonistic by nature.
My comment is in response to a lot of the comments that have been directed at any criticism/raising of issues - basically casting aside any complaint about the N900.
But yeah maybe it was a little provocative so sorry about that, its definitely not my intention to cause problems.
Last edited by chrisp7; 2010-01-21 at 18:49.
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2010-01-21
, 18:42
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Posts: 385 |
Thanked: 344 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Israel
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#89
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Originally Posted by Laughingstok
I don't know why you are classifying this device as an IT pro's only, when Nokia didn't do that.
Obviously not intended for them as they're not IT professionals and have no clue what Linux or even a shell is. I'm glad for the people that come here and learn and have the "tough enough" attitude to tweak, hack and mold their n900 to do what they want. That's the point of it. But to cry because some app scrolls a little too slow for you means you're in the wrong field. And I will never be apologetic for that. Again, if you don't even know how to check the n900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it. It wasn't meant for you. (You being anyone reading this)
This is a multimedia device as well, and I do like it's shell, but it's definitely not my primary use.
Just surf to maemo.nokia.com to get a sense of it - it's different by any means from the usual plain white HTML page you'll get for the common linux guru web page.
As an IT pro you probably have heard the joke about the guy that called support with his computer's outlet disconnected, and the guy told him to return the PC to the store...
This might be the attitude of IT, or perhaps only you, but problems like apps that scrolls too slow or any other UI issue is a big concern for the non-CLI common guy, and you'll be surprised how many non-CLI users buy this phone.
To un-legitimate their experience feedbacks is non legitimate by itself...
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2010-01-21
, 18:47
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Posts: 472 |
Thanked: 442 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
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#90
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Originally Posted by chrisp7
Again, "mainstream" n900 owners are a majority that probably should NOT own it. Maemo is a BRAND NEW OS. It's GOING to have problems.
But surely you admit your opinion is pretty small minded - you arent exactly considering the rest of the more mainstream N900 owners.. I wouldnt say your opinion is all that relevant then! If there is a media player on a device, at least make it work well, same goes for maps etc etc. There are other users with differing needs out there.
Nokia is genius. The N900 is landing in the hands of the people they want it to. The people who can TRULY see the implications and power of the device. NOT the people who are going to b!tch because it scrolls a little quirky sometimes.
Look through these forums. It's loaded with very intelligent people that are doing AMAZING things with the n900, things other phones can't even hold a candle to. Now you tell me, are they crying because some of the visuals are not as lightning fast as another phones? Nope. That's because that crap comes later. It's fluff. It's stuff intended to appeal to the masses to make them happy. The same person that would be attracted to a shiny piece of gold so they can hold it in their hands and stare at it. Meanwhile those of us who truly "get it" toss the gold and grow an orchard so we can feed ourselves. Stuff that matters.
And speaking on behalf of "mainstream," I live in the United States and I have not seen ONE commercial, ad, radio sound byte, or anything advertising the N900. They are NOT trying to make it an iPhone killer. They are letting it "seep" into the Geek world and watching it bloom from an open, hacker friendly device, into what will probably be a true "killer-app phone" on Maemo 6 and devices to come.
__________________
If you don't know how to check your N900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it.
If you don't know how to check your N900's uptime, you probably shouldn't own it.
I'm sorry people are disappointed. N900 has lived up to and exceeded my expectations. Most computers seem to me to be damnably slow (because my brain is overclocked) but n900 is no worse than any other I've used, and a lot better than some.
And Mo is sorry to hear that the only other n900 we know of in the Duchy will be going back.
Hi! I'm Kathy and I'm a Maemo Greeter! Welcome.
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Did you know Meego.com has forums too?
Last edited by RevdKathy; 2010-01-21 at 18:14.