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bocephus is offline bocephus
2012-06-18 , 10:50
Posts: 150 | Thanked: 169 times | Joined on Nov 2011 @ Sweden
#81
This is what worries me:

Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
But if Nokia discontinues the distribution of certain files, we can't officially support the devices anymore. We are not legally allowed to redistribute the firmware images for example, so only users that already downloaded the files could reinstall.
Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
But we are legally not allowed to redistribute a lot of files like firmware images and some packages (used inside the firmware image and installed when setting up a SDK scratchbox environment). That is a problem.
So can we support the Maemo and MeeGo devices properly without those?

If Nokia decides to simply pull the plug without proper warnings, they would make a lot of Nokia customers really angry, making it highly unlikely they would buy Nokia again. But Nokia has done stranger things in the couple years.
Especially since a lot of N900s are still under warranty... I have a couple myself that are warrantied into 2013. And as far as I can remember, the Maemo Council was going to push for Nokia to extend funding of maemo.org for that very reason. What came of that?

I am already as angry as I can be with Nokia (top-level management), so my "anger level" won't change - but if they pulled the maemo.org infrastructure rug out from under my devices, I would be looking into channeling my anger into any sort of legal action remotely possible. How about a class action by all TMO members?

Originally Posted by qgil View Post
As explained in the announcement, the timeline for the cuts is between now and the end of 2013.
The cuts better not come until the end of 2013, since as I mentioned, devices will still be in warranty up to that point. I plan to use my N900s well after that too, but I certainly expect - and demand - that what I buy is supported throughout the warranty period.

Please note that this is not directed at you personally. I appreciate all your efforts, as I appreciate yours, kates and Reggie's contributions in this thread.
Last edited by bocephus; 2012-06-18 at 11:04.
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2012-06-18 , 11:03
Banned | Posts: 3,412 | Thanked: 1,043 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#82
The can of worms has been opened up on this thread and i reckon it will be a huge one.
 
Bernard is offline Bernard
2012-06-18 , 11:05
Posts: 468 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Jun 2006
#83
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
...
First of all Bernard please forgive me but i do not actually know who you are or your position.
Don't see why you would and don't see why it would matter.

I'm just a user and I love to hack and tinker with my gadgets. I would like to keep using my Maemo/MeeGo devices as I do now. And that includes stuff like:
- looking up information on the wiki
- posting questions on a forum
- downloading applications from a repository
- selling/buying applications from a store
- uploading source to an auto building system
- using the application SDK (QtSDK)
- using the system SDK (Scratchbox SDK)
- re-flashing when I screwed up my device

information is scattered on a lot of differen Nokia site:
- maemo.org
- maemo garage, like http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/ and http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/
- Qt site
- harmattan dev site
- Harmattan SDK site
- meego site
- Nokia developer site
- Scratchbox is also Nokia sponsored
- Syncevolution also?

Possibly even more locations.
 

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lma is offline lma
2012-06-18 , 11:16
Posts: 2,802 | Thanked: 4,491 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#84
Originally Posted by tekojo View Post
tabletsdev is the only area which has material that is under licences (Nokia and third party)
Also the apt repositories under catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com / downloads.maemo.nokia.com, the nokia-binaries SDK repositories etc.

Aside from that, the thing that most people here don't seem to grasp is the size of maemo.org. The forums are one small part of it all. The big parts are the old autobuilder, the new OBS, the repositories and the content delivery network.
And the wiki, garage, bugzilla, mailman...

If you recall the N900 has Extras as an official repository. That means that every single day, every single network connected N900 pings the repository (the content delivery network in the middle takes the load) and checks if something has changed.
It would be useful if the maintainers could publish some concrete usage figures (current and trends) so we could get a grasp of the size of the thing instead of some nebulous notion that it's too big to move elsewhere.
 

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tekojo is offline tekojo
2012-06-18 , 11:42
Posts: 148 | Thanked: 484 times | Joined on Nov 2008
#85
Originally Posted by lma View Post
Also the apt repositories under
It would be useful if the maintainers could publish some concrete usage figures (current and trends) so we could get a grasp of the size of the thing instead of some nebulous notion that it's too big to move elsewhere.
That's a question to Kate or Quim, but don't expect specific numbers, no phone manufacturer gives out detailed numbers (except when they sensationally tell the world that they sold N million devices in M months).

However I think I can say that the traffic originating from the N900s out there is something that needs some sort of content delivery network, or load balancing. The load comes from all over the planet and continuously.

The other parts of the system could probably be dealt with plain hardware. Of course the builder or OBS machines are pretty big, but not impossible.
 

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wook_sf is offline wook_sf
2012-06-18 , 11:49
Posts: 640 | Thanked: 435 times | Joined on Oct 2011 @ rajvoSa BA
#86
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
... I'll show you what entitlement means when I start seriously moderating.
OMG, you are MODERATOR :-O
what does it has to do with fact that you attacked guy who was complaining about management's statements?
so, you are moderator and you need to defend attacked qgil?
abill_uk just wanted to know what will happen with maemo.org because, seems like he is one who cares about maemo, unlike employee/spokesman
however, when you was attacking abill_uk, mr qgil was online, reading whole thread, so, what was your point?
unless you have some personal issues with abill_uk?
 

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lma is offline lma
2012-06-18 , 11:56
Posts: 2,802 | Thanked: 4,491 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#87
Originally Posted by tekojo View Post
That's a question to Kate or Quim, but don't expect specific numbers, no phone manufacturer gives out detailed numbers (except when they sensationally tell the world that they sold N million devices in M months).
Not those kind of numbers, just relevant figures to determine the necessary capacity for hosting things. Ie, I'd like to see data like "Fremantle extras uses X GiB/month, rising (or falling) by Y%", "Diablo builder uses N hosts of such and such CPU/RAM/disk specs at M% utilisation rising/failling by whataver" etc.

However I think I can say that the traffic originating from the N900s out there is something that needs some sort of content delivery network, or load balancing.
Without actual data we won't know, will we? Also, what if someone wants to volunteer hosting the community repositories for the "internet tablet" (pre-N900) devices? I suspect those might be easily serviceable with a handful of machines or even less on any semi-decent hosting location (but again, without hard data we can only guess).
 

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Bernard is offline Bernard
2012-06-18 , 12:03
Posts: 468 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Jun 2006
#88
Originally Posted by tekojo View Post
However I think I can say that the traffic originating from the N900s out there is something that needs some sort of content delivery network, or load balancing. The load comes from all over the planet and continuously.
That would be the traffic to the repositories right? Since the amount of devices in use is only going to decline from now, that is something that would only decrease from now.
Is that difficult to setup/expensive?
 

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lma is offline lma
2012-06-18 , 12:12
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#89
Also; the community will in any case find out those numbers the hard way when we start hosting the reporitories on community servers[1]. Except by that time we'll most likely have guestimated wrong and either have a massively oversubscribed service that crumbles under the load, or grossly overspent to build capacity that no one ended up needing. Who wants that?

[1] Unless Nokia refuses to let us use the maemo.org domain for such hosting, which would be a pretty asinine thing to do but not inconceivable.
 

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Bernard is offline Bernard
2012-06-18 , 12:17
Posts: 468 | Thanked: 610 times | Joined on Jun 2006
#90
Originally Posted by lma View Post
[1] Unless Nokia refuses to let us use the maemo.org domain for such hosting, which would be a pretty asinine thing to do but not inconceivable.
Isn't the name Maemo also Nokia property? In that case it could very well be that they don't want an outside project using a name that they own and will be connected to the main Nokia brand without having any control over it anymore.
 

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