Just want to say that if council cant track each other and own decisions and announcements, how could we?

community VS. (stands for versus) council?
community VS.NOKIA?
council VS. NOKIA?

all sounds like a zero-sum game to me
any device council (member) gets is one device community (member) doesn't get
well, council members are community members too, aren't they?
so, no, one dev for a council member = one dev for a community member

community VS. NOKIA?
well, NOKIA provided the devices, so, what can they gain in that "i want one too" game?
code?
yes, that's what NOKIA has been giving those devices away for years already, so that ppl would write apps or drivers or.... PR aka Public Releases? if you want to consider the Community Seamless Software Update a PR, yes, even that.
that's all coding competition, right?
so where does community award fit in?
for non coders, ppl who tested, wrote wiki pages or otherwise helped the community? like being member of the council?

council VS. NOKIA?
one can't help wondering what game those two would be playing here, huh?
if one accepts that this community can't exist without NOKIA, then the role of the council, maintaining a good relationship between the community and NOKIA would be a possibility.
to whose advantage? NOKIA?
well, considering that

• no other devices run Maemo in any useful form
• other software that runs on the NITs is scarce (yep, NITDroid, about the only one, though functionality is still limited, alas, thus...)(device gets very hot, no SD card support aso. asf.)

the community is completely dependent on NOKIA and the last few days are proof enough how ungrateful the community can be towards the ppl they elected less then two months ago...
does the master bite his dog?

I agree with most of what you said, but have a few small things to say about it:

Lesser deserving, in their opinion. Calling anyone on this list not deserving is frankly an insult. Some people may feel that X deserved it more than Y, that's fine, everyone is entitled to believe what they want. But the fact of the matter is that even if you completely discard the devices that went to Council, there were 21 other devices. Even if there were 4 more, someone would have been left off to be complained about.

And tell me, how does advancing NitDroid help Harmattan? Yet people wanted it's author to get an N950. This competition was not about advancing Harmattan, in any way, shape or form. The devices could have been Lumias, and the decisions would have been the same.

Also, please, do list the members who have voiced that they'll no work on Harmattan. To date, I've seen one person say that, in an angry reply to a self-appointed "Harmattan community leader" who was attacking other recipients (who had no beef with Council getting awards in his first post I'll note). One, of 25, who is beyond deserving of the device for past deeds. And it's not like it was announced before he was awarded that he wasn't going to do it. So what, you want us to retroactively remove the device, because of something said after the fact?

Lets not make things up to fight about, please.


On my part, I can tell you that despite claims to the contrary, I made no personal attacks. I made a light joke or two (mainly about hypocritical things said), but nothing on the scale of what's been done by others, or by you for that matter, by singling out individuals as being "unworthy". (And yes, in this very post, you did just that, both in the case of "the one" above, and in saying SD69 was the only Council deserving, implying the others, whose names are well known, were not.)

I made that comment, because it was already sent. Quim missed it in his inbox until it was pointed out to him that he missed it. Nobody was trying to "cover their backs", especially not me, as I have nothing to gain in this, being the one Council who isn't getting anything for it.

Check your facts... You're simply and flatly wrong on this one.

I find it equally incomprehensible that you do to not get this point: Council did not choose this process. The process was chosen before anyone on Council now was elected, with the exception of SD69 (who was already Council, and whom everyone has already beatified). Council explicitly asked for clarification on this, several times, specifically because it was not a desirable process. It was one setup by Nokia and handed to us as an entering Council.

Why would I apologize for a process I had no role in setting up? Why would I apologize for a process that most of the community did in fact agree to months ago, and still does, with the exception of a VERY small minority?


Again, did you read the logs? If you did, you will see Arie is not "singled out" for anything. 3 lines, in a log of over 500. The only one bringing attention to it was him. And yes, I would call 50 pages of 6 or 7 people repeating the same thing (including "how does this help Harmattan") after that point being addressed at least 12 times as going crazy. What would you call that?

So tell me again, what is Council to do? Here you say the should remain silent and "not fuel the fire". But in the other thread, when Council stopped replying because it was the weekend, you (and others) criticized that we were not being responsive. You've made both claims now, saying both are the wrong way to go. So which is it? What, exactly, do you want to see happen?

So the problem is now known.

His behavior from hereon is his own. It's his karma to carry forward. Glad to know he doesn't care for my position.

It is a wholly returned sentiment.

I do believe the information and proof given by SD69 is what folks wanted. Would be nice to have a statement that nothing as self-serving will happen again; but that's not a plausible request.

I can only talk for myself, but I'm satisfied to know who/what the problem is exactly.

management: doing things right
leadership: doing the right thing

council, please?

You are so wise. Howcome you are not in council?

Keep it coming...

I would go with one named council keep device but would be thrown from council as minimum, though it would be better to give device to itsnotabigtrunck or e-eyes from him before he leave.

Hey, people, how about we use all this energy and turn it into something good instead of adding volume to this thread?
As I can see it, it makes no sense to review the results of the CA. The lesson for the future is clear - alter the way the council members are awarded devices. That simple.

So, as there are voices some other deserving developers were omitted in the prizes - how about the community makes up for this? I mean, how much is a N9 nowadays? If the community thinks that those developers are so deserving (and requiring for their further work!) we could easily donate a few bucks each and fix the issue. Yeah, those are not N950, but one can perfectly code and develop with them, right?
Would that please everybody? This thread is on a straight way to a brawl, with some hurtful and inappropriate things said already - so why not to turn this effort it into something beneficial instead?

Again, the fact that Council was to decide the award was not Councils, but handed down by Nokia. Do you think an independent group would have not wound up with a similar list, if not the same list? I think, at most, one or two people would have been chosen differently, and Council would still have had 4 winners.

Yes.. Let's do that math. In the elections here, you can vote for up to the total number of candidates in the order you wanted them. If you didn't want those other candidates, you don't have to vote for them, at all. You could vote for JUST your one if you liked, and if everyone felt this way, just the one would get picked.

So even by the math on this, you're simply wrong. Did you vote in the last election? How could you have done so and missed that you didn't have to cast 5 votes?

I see... Did you want me to kick/ban him from the channel for saying people can use their ignore buttons? What would you have liked me to say? Is there something else that someone has said, that I've reacted too, or failed to react to, that you'd like to admonish me for? Also, how is that a "personal attack", to suggest that people can use a forum function?

So tell me: Why did you stand by while Aries said that three people, by name, were unworthy of their award, and did nothing to help to community? You were in the thread... I know you read the post because you replied to it, and liked it. Was it so normal that you didn't pay attention?