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2013-08-26
, 16:53
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Posts: 257 |
Thanked: 2,053 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#82
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Originally Posted by szopin
Anyone could do that in this long time and this didn't happen. Porting complete OS with some black boxes inside into different hardware with some black boxes inside is definitely much harder than porting OS with some black boxes into device to which you have full control.
Ok, what is Fremantle compatible then? Looking at the specs, this will be around droid 2 (CPU 1 GHz OMAP 3620, Droid 2 Global runs an OMAP3640 clocked at 1.2 GHz, Memory 8 GB flash ROM, 512 MB RAM), droid 1 was 3430 and sgx530 with 256 ram, a lot like n900. Since droids 2 can be bought for around 130$ (refurbished around 50$), maybe would make sense to find most compatible old device and build on that (form factor will probably make this impossible, but 100$ vs 700 euro...), with omap3 the only bump is ram/rootfs
Sooner or later you'll encounter some problems which you can't overcome with access to closed bits of original Droid OS. Heck, even porting alternate OSes to N900 turned out to not be as easy as you could imagine due to "exotic" ISI modem. We know now how to handle ISI and we can trick closed parts of Maemo to use some FSO<->ISI interface instead. With anything else, it would be work from scratch.
And you won't ensure full compatibility anyway. You can't take Droid boards and modify them to your needs. You won't add missing sensors, cameras. In Neo900, we can.
(anyway... doesn't Droid have pretty much locked bootloader? That alone renders it useless for us.)
Anyway. It's a phone created by community. For us by us. And it already exists (GTA04), so those are not just a words. Can you name any similar project?
__________________
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
Sebastian Krzyszkowiak - https://dosowisko.net/
Long term Openmoko supporter. Owner of two Neo Freerunners, a few N900s and some others too.
Future owner of the Neo900
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2013-08-26
, 17:09
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Posts: 1,431 |
Thanked: 2,630 times |
Joined on Jan 2011
@ Touring
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#83
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I suggest that the Maemo community board and Openmoko leadership together write a nice press release.
This will allow us to approach places like Slashdot, BoingBoing, even geek comics like XKCD with a unified believable message to get some popular buying pressure behind this.
If we can get enough horned-rimmed-glasses(no prescription) fixed-gear-cyclist hipster geek-wannabes to choose the ultimate alternative grass roots bespoke hardware/OS phone because of our 1337 street cred, then it will really bring the hardware price down for all of us.
Last edited by biketool; 2013-08-26 at 17:11.
This will allow us to approach places like Slashdot, BoingBoing, even geek comics like XKCD with a unified believable message to get some popular buying pressure behind this.
If we can get enough horned-rimmed-glasses(no prescription) fixed-gear-cyclist hipster geek-wannabes to choose the ultimate alternative grass roots bespoke hardware/OS phone because of our 1337 street cred, then it will really bring the hardware price down for all of us.
Last edited by biketool; 2013-08-26 at 17:11.
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2013-08-26
, 17:15
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Posts: 2,222 |
Thanked: 12,651 times |
Joined on Mar 2010
@ SOL 3
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#84
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Originally Posted by biketool
Please throttle just a tiny bit on all that :-)
I suggest that the Maemo community board and Openmoko leadership together write a nice press release.
This will allow us to approach places like Slashdot, BoingBoing, even geek comics like XKCD with a unified believable message to get some popular buying pressure behind this.
If we can get enough horned-rimmed-glasses(no prescription) fixed-gear-cyclist hipster geek-wannabes to choose the ultimate alternative grass roots hardware/OS phone because of our 1337 street cred, then it will really bring the hardware price down for all of us.
We're in the absolute initial phase of the hole thing, like "hum, nice idea, we should evaluate it". This week Nikolaus and me will study the schematics and write a list of issues that need further investigation. E.G. I honestly completely forgot about the camera in N900 when I came up with this idea. Sure, GTA04 supports *some* camera, but we need to check what can be done and make up our minds what should be done regarding the 5MP Nokia vs 1.?MP on GTA04.
So maybe it's just a tad too early for a press release, just let us do our job and come up with some hard facts.
Thanks for your patience and your support
jOERG
__________________
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Maemo Community Council member [2012-10, 2013-05, 2013-11, 2014-06 terms]
Hildon Foundation Council inaugural member.
MCe.V. foundation member
EX Hildon Foundation approved Maemo Administration Coordinator (stepped down due to bullying 2014-04-05)
aka "techstaff" - the guys who keep your infra running - Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/
IRC(freenode): DocScrutinizer*
First USB hostmode fanatic, father of H-E-N
Last edited by joerg_rw; 2013-08-26 at 17:17.
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2013-08-26
, 17:30
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Moderator |
Posts: 2,622 |
Thanked: 5,447 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#85
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Maybe evaluate the RPi camera?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/camera
EDIT: crap, fixed focus...
http://www.raspberrypi.org/camera
EDIT: crap, fixed focus...
__________________
Proud coding competition 2012 winner: ρcam
My other apps: speedcrunch N9 N900 Jolla –– contactlaunch –– timenow
Nemo UX blog: Grog
My website: qwazix.com
My job: oob
Proud coding competition 2012 winner: ρcam
My other apps: speedcrunch N9 N900 Jolla –– contactlaunch –– timenow
Nemo UX blog: Grog
My website: qwazix.com
My job: oob
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2013-08-26
, 18:23
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Posts: 28 |
Thanked: 104 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#86
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The foundation of this idea is very promising and has the potential of making it far in the current maker and indie culture.
There are a few points to make which I think are critical for a wider adoption to be attained (wider than openmoko has had until now).
The device has to actually be usable. Nowadays that means at least 1GB of RAM. I would like to echo Estel:
If something like this is done, it should be done right. Openness is important, but what biketool is saying about including a UHF/VHF transmitter struck a cord. Especially in todays context of cellular networks being co-opted by governments or just for more robust communication a fall-back alternative for creating ad-hoc networks would be great.
Finally I'd like to summarize that for this to be worthwhile it has to do more than just equal the N900. I can still buy an N900. It might not have great support, but it's "cheap" compared to what a "Neo900" would cost. So if this is done, it has to be done right. Which means day-to-day usable in terms of hardware and future proof in general.
If those conditions were fulfilled I would be amongst those who were willing to pay an arm and a leg for this, not to mention contributing to community support where possible.
Last edited by Fawz; 2013-08-26 at 18:27.
There are a few points to make which I think are critical for a wider adoption to be attained (wider than openmoko has had until now).
The device has to actually be usable. Nowadays that means at least 1GB of RAM. I would like to echo Estel:
Originally Posted by Estel
700€+ is a lot of money for something that's a hobby thing and not usable for day-to-day use like the N900 still kind-of is. For me the price I'm willing to pay for something like this would jump from 0 to "as much as it takes" the minute it's actually usable and is relatively future proof. Which leads me to my next point.
I think the pool results can be quite misleading - much depends on final specs of device in question.
For example, I could pay even 800EUR+ for a device with 1GB of RAM, and exactly 0 (aka not interested) for 512 RAM one. As I mentioned earlier, hardware compatibility with some of unusual habits we have with N900 (like, FMTX or IR TX) are crucial, too....
/Estel
If something like this is done, it should be done right. Openness is important, but what biketool is saying about including a UHF/VHF transmitter struck a cord. Especially in todays context of cellular networks being co-opted by governments or just for more robust communication a fall-back alternative for creating ad-hoc networks would be great.
Finally I'd like to summarize that for this to be worthwhile it has to do more than just equal the N900. I can still buy an N900. It might not have great support, but it's "cheap" compared to what a "Neo900" would cost. So if this is done, it has to be done right. Which means day-to-day usable in terms of hardware and future proof in general.
If those conditions were fulfilled I would be amongst those who were willing to pay an arm and a leg for this, not to mention contributing to community support where possible.
Last edited by Fawz; 2013-08-26 at 18:27.
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2013-08-26
, 18:59
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Posts: 132 |
Thanked: 40 times |
Joined on Jan 2013
@ Nairobi Kenya
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#87
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Originally Posted by Ariadeno
Heard the BeagleBone Black first from you, and checked it up, this looks brilliant and its pretty handy.
What about re-designing the BeagleBone Black into a functional mobile phone considering it's open-hardware and similair to OMAP(am3559). It's amazing how many OS's can be run. Adding peripherals wouldn't be that difficult as there's the great amount of I/O pins that can be used.
I have one and must say this is the only board that is fully open-source both hardware and software. The PCB design etc. are all hosted by Texas Instruments.
Generally the idea is great and am in, I voted 500 cos am not even sure what will happen to my n900. How else can I use my n900's motherboard etc. Also, is it possible to change the camera to a bigger one like lets say 12MP like on n950? I hope this goes through, this means I won't have to shop for a nokia phablet...
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2013-08-26
, 20:49
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Posts: 215 |
Thanked: 348 times |
Joined on May 2011
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#88
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Originally Posted by Fawz
The device has to actually be usable. Nowadays that means at least 1GB of RAM.
700€+ is a lot of money for something that's a hobby thing and not usable for day-to-day use like the N900 still kind-of is.
)
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2013-08-26
, 20:53
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Posts: 347 |
Thanked: 441 times |
Joined on Dec 2010
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#89
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How much faster is it compared to N900?
__________________
Motorola M3688 → Ericsson R320 → Siemens S40 → Motorola V60c → Palm Treo 650 → Blackberry 9000 → Nokia N900 → HP Pre 3 → Nokia N900 → Nokia N9 → Nokia N900 → Nokia 808 → Blackberry Z10 → Blackberry Passport
Only dead fish swim with the stream.
Motorola M3688 → Ericsson R320 → Siemens S40 → Motorola V60c → Palm Treo 650 → Blackberry 9000 → Nokia N900 → HP Pre 3 → Nokia N900 → Nokia N9 → Nokia N900 → Nokia 808 → Blackberry Z10 → Blackberry Passport
Only dead fish swim with the stream.
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2013-08-26
, 21:30
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Posts: 2,076 |
Thanked: 3,268 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
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#90
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Originally Posted by dos1
I just meant half of the HW you need is in them, buy at 50$ refurb and you have cpu/gpu/ram, they have sensors, not sure if compatible/open though. Unless printing the board is the costliest, most of the things we need are in cheap second hands
You can't take Droid boards and modify them to your needs. You won't add missing sensors, cameras. In Neo900, we can.
For example, I could pay even 800EUR+ for a device with 1GB of RAM, and exactly 0 (aka not interested) for 512 RAM one. As I mentioned earlier, hardware compatibility with some of unusual habits we have with N900 (like, FMTX or IR TX) are crucial, too.
Now, *this* question, that had to happen at some point:
Is there a realistic chance for miniHDMI or any other computer-monitor compliant video out? That would make device much more worthwile, even to the point of 1000+ EUR (if former hardware requiments are meet).
Don't get me wrong - I'm fan of the idea, even outside tight hardware specs. But if I'm going to consider spending sum close to 1k EUR on single device, expectations are high, rightly so. Such sum is just too big, to spend it "for the love of idea", only.
Also, I think that developer of Neo900 really like honest answers more, than initial "take my money" and low amount of orders later, so don't crucify me (yet) for being "moderately optimistic", at best.
/Estel
N900's aluminum backcover / body replacement
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N900's HDMI-Out
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Camera cover MOD
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Measure battery's real capacity on-device
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TrueCrypt 7.1 | ereswap | bnf
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