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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2018-08-02 , 13:52
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#891
Ok. Guys. And how many smartphone os have curser available? Yeah. I’m talking OSes that people actually use?

The fact that you even want a cursor means you want a computer rather than a smartphone. Don’t disagree with me when you don’t know what you want
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Kabouik is offline Kabouik
2018-08-02 , 14:10
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#892
All OSes have some sort of text selection, and the trackpad can already be used for better accuracy on that, even in Android. New Blackberry phones running Android have this feature for instance. This is of course a limited use but, most importantly, you can have a real mouse cursor in Android as long as a mouse is detected, and then you can use it to do [things] (Settings > Developer Options > Show Pointer location).

Also, I don't think wanting a way to control a cursor means wanting a computer, see this poll for a Blackberry device (with Blackberry OS at this time):


https://crackberry.com/plenty-users-...kberry-classic

The scope of the poll is rather limited, but it's still several thousand votes and it shows most people were using the cursor for a mobile OS. Increasing productivity does not necessarily mean turning the phone into a computer. But with a landscape HWKB phone, you could actually do it when needed, as long as you have a cursor, and that doesn't mean it would be a bad phone otherwise.
Last edited by Kabouik; 2018-08-02 at 14:16.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2018-08-02 , 14:48
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#893
Originally Posted by Dave999 View Post
Ok. Guys. And how many smartphone os have curser available? Yeah. I’m talking OSes that people actually use?
Very few. Don't you get it? That is exactly the point!!!

Mind you, I do not believe for a single second that customers "do not want" a pointing device. Or a keyboard. Or a device the size they can actually use. But they cannot have that, because the manufactures do not give them the option. Because it is easier for the manufacturers to do it that way. So the customers have to settle.

I can see that in your case the marketing ploy worked perfectly. You have my full commiseration.
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imaginaryenemy is offline imaginaryenemy
2018-08-02 , 15:21
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#894
Originally Posted by Kabouik View Post
New Blackberry phones running Android have this feature for instance.
My last two BlackBerry devices (one BB10 and one Android) have had capacitive keyboard functions. They appear to be normal hardware keyboards but have some touch sensitive aspects that don't involve pressing the keys. For example, a double tap on the keyboard (not a key press) brings up a movable cursor that can be placed by moving your finger across the keyboard.

I love this feature. It would be great to be included in any hardware keyboard device. I can only assume, however, that this feature would be well outside of the budget that Chen has. I would rather have a phone without it, than no (chen)phone at all.
 

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Kabouik is offline Kabouik
2018-08-02 , 15:34
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#895
Originally Posted by imaginaryenemy View Post
can only assume, however, that this feature would be well outside of the budget that Chen has. I would rather have a phone without it, than no (chen)phone at all.
I agree with you, but maybe using an optical trackpad as the previous Blackberry phones, the Samsung Omnia or the HP keyboard I linked before would work for a fraction of the cost, and much easier integration (the whole keyboard doesn't have to be reworked for that). What new Blackberry phones have is the fusion between a touchpad and a keyboard, and that must be more complex than a mere (and small) optical trackpad:





Dx was selling them for just 10€ (currently out of stock), but I'm sure those or alternative models could still be sourced somewhere. I think I have seen smaller trackpads too.

Also, since it's optical and not based on conductivity, it can be used with gloves (but I don't expect the hwkb to be very comfortable with gloves ):



Could be useful for simple (no typing) use in winter, although it isn't really a serious argument.
Last edited by Kabouik; 2018-08-02 at 16:09.
 

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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2018-08-02 , 15:40
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#896
So we shall add even more festure requests to the chenPhone.then we have to wait even more. Why not build a qwerty device in its most basic form and see if that works. Even that takes years. Jolla tried lots of stupid things and wasted our money on stupid things instead of building a tablet and ship it to its backers.

If chen manage to build one it much easier to build version 2 with extras. Both when it comes to finance and technical issues.
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2018-08-02 , 16:03
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#897
You are absolutely right, we just can't ask all the features that come to our mind. My previous posts months ago in this topic show how much I agree. I even believe I stepped against the Blackberry keyboard/touchpad in the past because it seemed just way too complicated to achieve. However I didn't think about optical trackpads, yet they look much simpler, easier to integrate, cheaper, and videos of Blackberry trackpads in use are very convincing. In the end, Chen will decide anyway and he already has is prototype in mind, we are not doing any harm as long as we are not falling into science fiction requests.

To be honest, I am not setting my hopes too high for this, but since there are real use cases and it's less fantasy/gadget than a solar panel or a subwoofer, it doesn't seem so unreasonable to discuss the concept. It would be a competitive advantage against the Gemini and many other phones, a solar charger or can opener extension, would not.

It seems the Ali Baba's cave for mobile optical trackpads is here: http://www.crucialtec.com/eng/busine...s_otp.php#tab3

Its performance has been proved by global customers such as Samsung, BlackBerry, HTC etc and shipped over 200millions.


 

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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2018-08-02 , 20:01
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#898
Originally Posted by Kabouik View Post
You are absolutely right, we just can't ask all the features that come to our mind. My previous posts months ago in this topic show how much I agree. I even believe I stepped against the Blackberry keyboard/touchpad in the past because it seemed just way too complicated to achieve. However I didn't think about optical trackpads, yet they look much simpler, easier to integrate, cheaper, and videos of Blackberry trackpads in use are very convincing. In the end, Chen will decide anyway and he already has is prototype in mind, we are not doing any harm as long as we are not falling into science fiction requests.

To be honest, I am not setting my hopes too high for this, but since there are real use cases and it's less fantasy/gadget than a solar panel or a subwoofer, it doesn't seem so unreasonable to discuss the concept. It would be a competitive advantage against the Gemini and many other phones, a solar charger or can opener extension, would not.

It seems the Ali Baba's cave for mobile optical trackpads is here: http://www.crucialtec.com/eng/busine...s_otp.php#tab3



https://reho.st/0x0.st/sWYr.png

https://reho.st/0x0.st/sWYs.png
Good. What about solar charger built in?
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2018-08-02 , 20:11
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#899
It is always a pleasure engaging in a discussion with you, Dave.
 

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endsormeans is offline endsormeans
2018-08-02 , 20:40
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#900
y'know what you get when you ask all the features that come to mind?
that has already happened somewhere else...
answer : an unfinished neo
or a finished Homer mobile
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