For the record, they never said that, and all specs listed Flash version properly (and they still do if someone bothers to check the specs page). The *only* connection of Flash 10 and the N900 is the presentation of Kevin Lynch of Adobe, who demonstrated allegedly Flash 10 on a conference last October. Nokia never ever said anything official on the subject, and the site demonstrated works with Flash 9, too, so it is impossible to say if Adobe ever had Flash 10 running. Adobe claims they gave the "Flash 10 porting kit" to Nokia. It is unknown what this "porting kit" contains or how much work it takes to convert it into a functional version. The porting kit can ONLY be distributed/sanctioned by Adobe and is NOT available to the community.

And has Nokia ever said anything reliable about the future of N900?

So... it's safe to say that Flash Player 10.1 will never officially come to Maemo 5.

qole called this one. I wanted him to be wrong, seems like he was right. And blaming folks... waste of time. Even then, it doesn't bring anything out faster.

I'm keep visiting this threat with hope someone will bring good news. Instead I see the same faces continue their point of view. And just getting frustrated sometimes because with all respect to you, honored old maemo members I'm surprised about what you saying here sometimes.

Quole. If you think Flash is about couple of video websites you are simply wrong and looking at this case from perspective of old school skilled programmer who anyway completely showing ignorance and lack of knowledge to this technology. Including current situation on the market.

Attila77 you are the author of the Flash Launcher because you already recognized there is a hunger to get some flash casual games (anyway rubbish time wasters). But you clearly against Adobe and defending Nokia here even if you don't wont to show it.

gerbick as Flash developer you have wider picture of the technology and what this whole game is about. But now I see you already loosing your patient, hope and perspective regarding to this particular platform as well.

And I have to say, if I will keep reading this conversation here probably too.

Flash is not the best technology on the world of course. Is not and never was ideal developer tool. But from decade keep evolving. Taken over by Adobe few years ago it was clear, there is a hope and future for improvement IF Adobe didn't buy it just for get rid of it. But what we can see from decade is constant development and improvements. Flash is not ready for Mobile yet. True, but they doing everything in this direction. In the same time mobile devices are more and more powerful. So.. we are nearly facing times when Flash is going to be useful on those devices. And this is break point for Flash as well.

What is true and bad about Flash:
Is slow, chunky, processor hungry, battery killer. 70% of display list related task are unnecessarily being done by processor instead of GPU leaving developer with 30% what is "walking on the lashes" to get some serious application done, Flash Player source code is close and you need a license if you wont to distribute it

What is true and good about Flash:
- AS3 is a very powerful and flexible scripting language comparable to Java/ .NET. In many cases has the fastest code execution time over all well known languages of the web.
- Flash, no any other technology started RIA era. Ajax and now HTML5 trying to step-up as always what Flash was capable to do many years ago.
- In terms of production time is also the fastest technology on the market. And this fact and any other made this technology a home for annoying banners.
- apart of Flash Player the rest is Open Source included development tools, compilers and there is HUGE open source Flash developer community supporting many interesting projects. Some people here are still laughing and showing ignorance to this fact but you just need to do some homework before you want to rise your voice otherwise sounds a bit over-pitched.

What can be true and good about Flash in the future:
Faster, less chunky, less processor hungry, 70% of display list related task can be allocated to GPU leaving developer with space for business logic.

As we know from history Java on the beginning of 21 century was scared. There was big heat about Java Killer. And flash was very primitive and not even deserved this name in 2001. There was a lot of rumors and hate over the web. 5 years later when AS3 and new virtual machine became reality Java lost their lead in some areas. When Flex introduced Open Source initiative Sun gave up and opened Java. Java FX was a nice try to reactivate the lead but it was to late.

As far as I remember so called "serious developers" was always saying Java is EVIL. That is obvious for me you will never change mind about Flash as technology that push out Java in the shadow. The fact is Flash is the only technology to put Designers and Developers together in one environment what was always big concern and issue if you back in time and look through entire computer science history.

Of course, personally I wish to have such environment, flexible and human friendly language even more than AS3 is. And keep efficiency of Assembly in this time. But seems to me like there is only one solution for now.

Is up to open Source community to develop something like that.

Rant ON:

Now I am entering the territory I don't know and try to feel what I feel reading your post. And that will be highly controversial and you gonna hate me for that.

Where have you been last 10 years guys?
Trying develop/improve Mamo or fighting with Java Evil?
Is that what took you 5 years right?

Or just Touch device friendly GUI on top of Maemo.
Or maybe QT tools to speed up development time witch is still to slow?
How long it took to develop QT really?

And you still miss Designers without understanding what driven commercial world and realizing why Linux never was so popular (Lack of robust human friendly tools).

How long took to adopt Linux to run on this devices? I guess not to long. Most of the job has been done ages ago before even Flash was born.

Are you still going to call this Technology Open Source without providing any support, teaching people, handing over the knowledge, keeping your geeknes for yourself only? I can easily develop some stuff, write something and share with the world. But guess what, I will not tell you HOW-TO. Without education no matter will be open as Atlantic Ocean will dive and you can find 100000 technologies that end up like this. Imagine SOMETHING like Flash under the Linux. I know Imagination is not the strongest side of Linux guys but this fear that to many people enter this world will destroy your geeky heaven.

Rant OFF.

Now you can read back all of this posts in this thread and just put any technology against another if you like and try to understand both sides. Even less important is witch corporation is keeping hand on this Adobe, Nokia, Apple... I'm am really surprise to hear all this from Open Source community because you are begun behave as Corporation without realize that. The only difference is ideology replaced the money. And I still strongly believe that is up to you guys, skilled developers who begun Open Source movement for reason, without doubt playing very important role in IT world and less and less creativity more bloody holly wars.


Divide and Conquer? It works only in programming for us. Otherwise against us.

Flash on the N900 is only an enhancement of what's viewable on the Internet. As it stands, it's no "divide and conquer" to it, not from my perspective.

Just that they could have been part of the first gen of phones that actually got a full-blown Flash Player (as opposed to Flash Lite) upgrade alongside the Google Nexus and other upcoming HTC Android phones.

I'm not even upset because it wasn't promised. It was only shown. And with that, it can be forgotten. It's not even about who to blame. That solves absolutely nothing as well.

So what do I want? In the future, you better believe I will pick a platform that supports my needs as an user that develops/outputs Flash. And will grow with me in the 6-18+ months that I keep the handset. Otherwise, I will not by their handset at some expensive, non-subsidized price because it simply isn't worth it.

Unlocked looks a lot like unsupported in this case... 8 months later.

gerbick my post was generally speaking off-top. Addressing flash haters and lovers out of speculations is going be on N900 or not. I don't really care anymore. I've learn a lot, at least its another one experience. I am only surprised how misinformed people can be, how much corporations have something to do with this and why developer community is so divided Flash vs HTML5 Maemo vs Flash vs Java, Java vs Flash, Meego vs Maemo, Nokia vs Adobe vs Apple and so on almost in any possible permutation. That's why I've been using this metaphor.

I got what you're saying, devu. And I love your enthusiasm something fierce.

But as far as it goes... anger, even disgust isn't applicable. I'm going to let my pocket dictate my next purchase. Not loyalty... because that grants you nothing but knowledge that your money is in their pocket.

Lol, it just occurred to me, being without flash 10 isn't that bad considering iphone doesn't have flash...o wait o.o

I can't help but have this distinct feeling that flash10 would be on the n900 eventually....

Considering that meego would support flash 10 and it's OS isn't that far off from the n900. Perhaps we could pull some libs, packages and stuff from meego and reconvert em pretty easily. But then again, that would be when meego is fully developed and of course the n900 would *probably* be obsolete by then.

But chances are there would be a side effect where most meego apps work on the n900 without much reconversion, and developers decide to support both phones since it would be an easy gain in moneh, and the n900 community would already bigger than the meego's....

I guess, all I could do is hope for the best....

[QUOTE=SavageD;753375
But chances are there would be a side effect where most meego apps work on the n900 without much reconversion, and developers decide to support both phones since it would be an easy gain in moneh, and the n900 community would already bigger than the meego's....
[/QUOTE]

This is wrong. Nokia already admitted to that:

I don’t have a qualm with Flash as a technology and am a pragmatic enough that if we DO have something, we should use it to the full extent. What I’m unhappy with is the way Adobe handles the Flash plugin development (I’m not defending Nokia, just saying bashing them won’t solve anything). I was hoping the Open Screen Project would bring some changes, but sadly, it is more and more turning out to be a cost-share effort among big companies and has little do with the openness in the terms of freedom, or even simple pragmatism. Imagine some cool hacker made Harmattan’s Flash to work on Maemo 5 - the sad thing is that the way things are now, maemo.org could not accept that into Extras without some major legal loophole exploitation because Flash distribution is illegal without entering into a formal relation with Adobe.

Those are the things that make me uneasy when talking about Adobe, not Flash per se.

Unlike, well, others...

EDIT: forgot this... I don’t mind ranting as long it has a focus and provides insight

Devu, 5-10 years ago I was a Java guy (in fact wrote my ME thesis in/about it), but I have since seen the error of my ways