Yeah, it was a lot of fun to watch other people get for free the device I paid for, then be told that I'm not getting one at all.

There's a delicious irony in how frequently we're reminded that this next phone thing isn't crowdfunded. I'd argue it was crowdfunded... by the keyboard mod investors.

Dave, thank you. I decided not to comment on this project furthermore until it was formally launched, or at the point I can safely release all the info. But I wanted to say thank you this time.

I know it might sounds un-trustworthy at this point, but this date is not far.

And I am so glad this is no longer crowdfunded - no more refund farce. And everyone buys when they are ready.

I am very sorry. The main users that got early access of the device was for the SFOS/Lineage OS dev purpose. I did want to make a good solutions to all of you. But the consequence was unexpected to me as well.

As someone says I should not take the excuses. My sincere apology to you.

Reading previous few comments is quite upsetting.

I really don't understand things like:

I don't know how many times I need to state that there is no upfront payment or whatsoever for this product, until it is released. If you don't believe it just don't believe you have nothing to lose. But talking this way is very discouraging.

First of all for the Keyboard Mod I said in posts above, the funds has been spent on moulding, R&D engineering, samples etc and now I issue full refund means I need to bear the loss above, plus the cost of IGG platform, bank transfer, PayPal, and my spent on part of final components and PCBs. I choose refund because I do not want people lose trust for others, and I do not want to make lost on others.

And certainly, I will not think others like the above did.

We all tried different ways of improving our current situation of mobile phone industry, from Neo900, to Keyboard Mod, and Purism, Gemini, Necunos etc.

(Meloferz, Youyota wasn't my project and I have invested way more than anyone else.)

It might not be successful for every project, but at least there are people who are actively trying. I have to admit crowdfunding isn't a good way of supporting those, as there are uncertainties and delays before it is released. But since there is no crowdfunding at this one, I am not sure where your loses will come from.

To me if I see a new project, and not taking upfront payment, I will not think this way like the above, but support it as I can. And I was wrong about what I thought of others.

Making a new slider phone isn't like an accessory, for the huge upfront cost I take every step cautiously and avoid any risks I can think of. This is not a game.

Perhaps I can tell some challenges we encountered recently:

- The picture quality of (a good) front camera drops with the length of FPC, the longer the more it drops. VGA camera in old slider isn't affected as their transmission width is much smaller, so they did not have this issue. But if you want a good picture quality on a slider with FPC for front cam there is serious engineering work involved. And we solved.
- It's also hard to use a high-standard rear camera sets and not having camera pointing out (like nearly all other phones) and maintaining a good thickness. Because sliders need to sit on a table and the rear needs to be flat. We used the latest camera modules and we made it.
- It's hard to have all antenna bands - especially the global LTE bands tuned up for the slider. Considering N950 it's a 3G device, and Droid 4 does not have many LTE bands coverage. We need to tune a crazy amount of bands in 2 states, slider closed and slider opened. Plus we have more metal parts inside.

I can list a lot more if necessary. This is also the part of reasons I don't want to show early if not ready.

To avoid causing unnecessary speculations, which might even cause negative impact for other on-going projects, I will stop posting in this thread. (Which I did for the last few months) If you do care I can update on Telegram separately until formal announce.

So yes I am not doing marketing in here, I am not asking you for financial support, I am not selling them now, I am not preparing for a future crowdfunding, I am not taking payments, I am not taking keyboard mod funds and run away, I am not making a scam...

I do miss the old time though.

And finally, please follow the official announcement when they come. And I do hope it can surprise you. Until then I will not reply and update out of official source.

Why is there frustration in the air?

Doing a proper HW project from scratch is really risky. To keep up in long run is even more so. Just look a Pebble who even though delivering multiple products simply burned through all investor money and went down.

Despite the clever marketing of some "groundbreaking" features the first iPhone was not a big commercial succes. Just the followup generations with lower price and app store had a breakthrough.

You need a lot of upfront investment and can be never sure if it will be worh it. For that reason I really honor anyone who tries to produce some quality HW. Especially in some niche market lke HWKBD phones. :-)

So keep up Chenliangchen!

Chen (and others), I would like to tell you a story. A story from my own life. I apologize in advance for the length but I would plead with you to find the time and read it as it was very educational for me and I believe others would also benefit and, maybe, avoid some of the mistakes I have made.

Years ago, before I acquired a family, I used to go playing chess with some guys from work. Once a week, we met in the pub after work, set up our boards and played, glass of beer in one hand, eyes on the board. I was not a complete rookie, I had been playing recreationally for years, but some of the guys were miles ahead of me. Reading theory books, playing competitively etc.

I learned a lot from them. Theory I missed on before, famous strategies by grand masters of the past... But by far the most valuable lesson I learned was this. Always, and I have to emphasize that, ALWAYS think like your opponent. Whether you are considering your next move or planning the whole strategy, imagine you are not sitting in your own place but on the other side. What would you do? How would you play? Could you see any strengths and weaknesses you are missing when looking at the board from your own side only? Could you, as your opponent, spot what you are planning to do and make any countermeasures?

This advice, to try to see the same situation from other than your own side, should be a universal strategy. Not only in chess, but in every walk of life. Business and political negotiations, even personal interactions like asking a girl (or guy) out, even banal things like deciding which pub to go to or what movie to see.

To make it clear, I am the first one to admit that it is not easy. Even with a full knowledge of the advice, I find that I do not always follow it. I cannot always put myself completely in the other side's position. My judgment is always, at least partially, clouded by my own perspective. Of course outcome so-and-so is the best, so of course both sides will want to work towards that outcome. It is obvious, right? Not necessarily. What we often forget, is that when we say, "outcome so-and-so is the best", we really mean that is is the best for me. What does the other side think? Would the knowledge of the answer change our approach?

Why am I going to such lengths (literally! ) to pontificate like this?

Because I think you have fallen into the same trap, failing to consider how the situation may appear to someone other than you. I have to emphasize, I do not blame you. I do not think it was deliberate. And I am not, I repeat, not throwing around the Dave's favourite "s" word. It's just that the trap is so well masked and extremely difficult to avoid, you have to be constantly making a conscious effort to avoid it.

For example, you know that Youyota was not your project, so of course it is obvious to everyone, right? Well, wrong. You have some inside knowledge that we don't, the "chess board" may look different from our side. As far as we can see, you introduced the project to us. You promoted it. You were the only contact point. There was some mysterious "Mike", but no one has ever seen him or exchanged a single message with him. You know him, we don't. And then, when things started to go south, you were the one who edited the first post in the Youyota thread, the one where you initially introduced the project and described how easy and straightforward it was going to be.

Let me stress again, I am not accusing you of anything nefarious. Only of not seeing the forest for the trees and failing to consider how the same situation may look different from the other side.

While I agree with @pichlo all in all, we shouldn't just address this just to @chen - I know you haven't. But anyway the example in in the text was directed to chen.

Please don't forget, the rude words started not on chen's side but other people started acting quite harsh. I had never the feeling that chen wasn't open or dishonest but communicated very reasonable.

I can understand that people were quite frustrated with the Youyota campaign, i've also lost some money, even so I just ordered the keyboard cover. And I also lost money on the the Neo900 campaign.

Anyway I can't see any reason for getting personal on people which did their best. And I think everybody should assume the guy's tried hard, as long as it is proven, that they didn't. If you need more information to judge a situation, don't start to rant but ask politely.

When we tell @chen that he has made a mistake in not being empathic enough, I think we make exactly the same mistake.

The key for such situations is, staying calm and friendly as long as you haven't prove, that somebody cheated you. I don't think it's gonna get us anywhere, when we shout out on any possibility SCAM or even worse ROBBERY (Especially when there is a refund possibility).

And I said it already on another post of this thread, let chen do his job on his q-device (and better encourage him, than telling him what is possible or not). If he succeeds you've won a lot, if not you haven't lost anything.

Off topic but i cannot believe the Youyota scam indiegogo is still open and taking money , to be honest it makes me fu((ing sick!

Off Topic but I cannot belive jolla still living on the scam with our money. It makes me going oh la Wahhabism la la la la.