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2008-08-05
, 17:19
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#982
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Originally Posted by Wes Doobner
Until businesses are the only ones buying laptops, or businesses buy every type of laptop in large quantities, it's hard to argue that non-usefulness for business purposes (let alone for suits in particular) says they're not laptops. Maybe you could argue that they're not business laptops, but that's as far as you can go.
Uhh, businesses buy millions of 'laptops' for their employees each year. Sorry, they aren't buying tablets and sorry, but 9 of the 10 apps I use daily simply cannot be made to work on a tablet; nor would I expect my employees to stare at a 4" screen all day. I'd have no employees left because they would all leave, or they would all be on disbility ffrom the migraines they would get from staring at a 4" screen for 6 hours per day.
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2008-08-05
, 17:26
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Joined on Sep 2007
@ San Jose, CA
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#983
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Originally Posted by Wes Doobner
None of which changes what I said:
Uhh, businesses buy millions of 'laptops' for their employees each year. Sorry, they aren't buying tablets and sorry, but 9 of the 10 apps I use daily simply cannot be made to work on a tablet; nor would I expect my employees to stare at a 4" screen all day. I'd have no employees left because they would all leave, or they would all be on disbility ffrom the migraines they would get from staring at a 4" screen for 6 hours per day.
Business customers do not define what is or isn't a laptop. Nor even what is or isn't a useful laptop. Nor even what is or isn't a successful portable computing gadget.
They are one segment of the market. Even if they're the largest segment of the market, they're still just one segment of the market. There are other market segments, which are profitable, and have no need to address the desires of the business customer market segment.
It's possible to have quite successful laptop products that aren't aimed at business customers at all. First generation iBook. iPod. iPod Touch. All successful portable computing gadgets that aren't/weren't focused on the business market (you could even put the first gen iPhone into this category, as many business gadget pundits have complained loudly that it didn't have features necessary to the business market).
And, by the way, we're talking about the N800, N810, and N900. Notice that they're N series devices, and not E series devices. Tell me that they NEED to be satisfying to the business market when there's a NIT that's an E series device.
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2008-08-05
, 17:27
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#984
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Well, I think the most important thing Nokia needs to do, if it plans to keep producing the Internet tablet, is lower the price point. New, lower-priced, Atom-based UMPCs that very much resemble the N810 are coming out. The AIGO MID, meant for the Asian market, went on sale in Hong Kong this week for slightly under $700 USD and is already available on Ebay for $759. The size is only slightly larger than the N810, but there's a lot more power under the hood; it's got an external antenna port to connect a GPS antenna. The Gigabyte, another Atom-based UMPC that resembles a slightly larger N810 is due out this year, too. Although these units are being released with variations of Linux, they're powerful enough to run about any flavor of desktop Linux. So, there's competition on steroids moving in to the block and I think it's essential that Nokia lower it's price point.
Last edited by newbiew/Qs; 2008-08-05 at 17:46.
Last edited by newbiew/Qs; 2008-08-05 at 17:46.
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2008-08-05
, 17:34
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#985
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Well, there's no reason (I know) to suppose the N900 will come in at a higher price point than the N810 did, which still undercuts those handily, and it will be smaller and have comparable processing power. I don't see the "steroids" there; sure there's competition, but they hardly seem to be a big threat in my view. I wish they were better, but I just don't see the 1st-gen Atom devices as all that hot.
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2008-08-05
, 17:39
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@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#986
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
True--it would be an advantage but it would mean either requiring an x86 processor--which would drain more power and provide less overall advantage of an OMAP system-on-a-chip design--or an x86 emulation layer which would REALLY be much slower and less advantageous for those emulated apps. I'd rather avoid it altogether myself but, like I'd said before, I can certainly understand the advantage you would want but it's a balance between battery life, cost and other details versus that one advantage of being able to run WINE. I'd probably lean more toward the OMAP.
Frankly, I believe Crossover for Linux or WINE is quite an advantage on a x86 nettop / mini laptop because only the mere possibility of being able to use it to run a niche application only available closed source on Windows, is a sigh of relief. If I look back, I can think of countless small applications I'd love to have used on a NIT/MID or perhaps mini-laptop.
There are hardware implementations of the SIDchip, but AFAIK not small, embedded ones requiring no interface.
Originally Posted by derekp
I would not want that to come with the unit. Maybe if the unit had an expansion port to lock into or just some bare contacts that an optional (read: buy seperately) device like an e-ink case could touch or communicate with with you slip the N9x0 device into it? Maybe if they moved the USB port out from behind the kickstand and just used that for the case to click into? (I might be afraid of damaging the port if the case gets dropped with the N9x0 inside.)
E-ink isn't realistic? There's several devices shipping now that have e-ink (Amazon Kindle, that Sony ebook reader, etc). Now e-ink isn't usable as a primary display for most applications due to slow refresh, but it could make a fine secondary display, and it can be made thin enough to be embedded into a protective flip cover.
Except for the price, but that should be coming down soon. So in that case, it might need to wait for the n950.
Originally Posted by newbiew/Qs
This goes to my point about the e-ink being optional. Plan for these upgrades and enhancements.. but leave them optional so that they don't make a useful thing too expensive. But make something awesome that kicks this system up a notch as an optional purchase to add on later so that we have time to save up for it after making that initial purchase. For that matter--it also increases the possibility of something being exploited like the 'geek port' on the old BeBox. Let users and third party manufacturers ALSO get involved in making upgrades and useful peripherals.
Well, I think the most important thing Nokia needs to do, if it plans to keep producing the Internet tablet, is lower the price point. ... So, there's competition on steroids moving in to the block and I think it's essential that Nokia lower it's price point.
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2008-08-05
, 17:45
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#987
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Originally Posted by danramos
Now that I think about it... why not a really low power microwave radio signal to communicate with such a case (the way RFID does)--I'd almost guess the N8x0 series could probably already do that. hm. Bonus if the eink case has another battery (or maybe a place for AAA's) inside a panel which can help charge the N9x0 while it's inside its case and REALLY extend the time the unit can be used overall.
I would not want that to come with the unit. Maybe if the unit had an expansion port to lock into or just some bare contacts that an optional (read: buy seperately) device like an e-ink case could touch or communicate with with you slip the N9x0 device into it? Maybe if they moved the USB port out from behind the kickstand and just used that for the case to click into? (I might be afraid of damaging the port if the case gets dropped with the N9x0 inside.)
Just brainstorming that one--I'd have to weight that against the cons if it could realistically be designed.
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2008-08-05
, 17:48
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#988
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I don't see the MID's being an initial threat, but I do see them getting better. And the one thing that I see setting them up as an eventual winner over the NITs, if they NITs don't resolve this, is that several of the MIDs have a plan for HSPA WWAN support.
The NITs will need some form of included WWAN that actually has a sizable market footprint. And probably soon (sooner than WiMAX will get them there). And, no, tethering doesn't count for this requirement.
The NITs will need some form of included WWAN that actually has a sizable market footprint. And probably soon (sooner than WiMAX will get them there). And, no, tethering doesn't count for this requirement.
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2008-08-05
, 18:18
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#989
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I do think Nokia's price point is too high, which they could get away with when they didn't have competition. I think the MIDs may drop in price slightly once they're marketed beyond Asia--say to around slightly under $600 USD. (For a UMPC, their introductory price point is very reasonable.) But given the fact that the MIDs' processors are more powerful and their specs more robust, I think their price point is going to make someone seriously interested in a Linux device think twice about plunking down almost $400 USD (or more) for a NIT when you get a MID for slightly more.
BenQ will be releasing its MID in Europe this year. Pricing hasn't been announced yet, but it will be interesting to see what price point they choose. Perhaps, release of a MID in it's home market will motivate Nokia to reduce the NIT to sub-$300 USD. I think that's about the price point they're going to have to adopt to compete with the MIDs, which have more powerful processors, more RAM and more internal storage.
BenQ will be releasing its MID in Europe this year. Pricing hasn't been announced yet, but it will be interesting to see what price point they choose. Perhaps, release of a MID in it's home market will motivate Nokia to reduce the NIT to sub-$300 USD. I think that's about the price point they're going to have to adopt to compete with the MIDs, which have more powerful processors, more RAM and more internal storage.
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2008-08-05
, 19:50
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#990
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Originally Posted by danramos
Ya mean like... Bluetooth? I'd almost guess so, too.
Now that I think about it... why not a really low power microwave radio signal to communicate with such a case (the way RFID does)--I'd almost guess the N8x0 series could probably already do that. hm.
That's reasonably suitable, and could be done software-only on the tablet side. (I'm thinking BIP.) I'm not sure the gadget would be all that awesome, with current eink displays, but it's definitely plausible... even in a third-party sense on current tablets.
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Er, never mind. You obviously have this all figured out so what's the point.